Comics Discussion => Flipside Discussion => Topic started by: Brion Foulke on October 23, 2009, 10:37:55 pm
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For discussing chapter 23.
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Those are some nice nails.
I'd like the number of that salon.
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Very pretty.
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So May will be modified like others and she will become a girl with magical nails! :o
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This is where her arm gets replaced with a bionic one and turns into the female version of Darth Vader.
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"With fingernails that shine like justice
And a voice that is dark like tinted glass"
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Love those hands, the nails are gorgeous.
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@Brion: The title is spelled incorrectly in the archive http://www.flipsidecomics.com/chapters.php
I wonder if we're seeing Fata Morgana here. The title certainly feels a bit ominous as to the statement that the world is a lie.
Thats it! Flipside is an early version of "THE MATRIX" *lol*
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Nice catch, Charles. ;P
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OMG!!!! its all been a dream............a horrible dream :o :o :o
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Didn't see that coming...
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This is where her arm gets replaced with a bionic one and turns into the female version of Darth Vader.
Fullmetal Jester?
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I'm seriously confused here...
We saw Crest and Suspiria in that confrontation with Danzig, earlier we saw both May and Bern going into that kind of portal, where they were locked up by these sister/s +/- Glyph.
It can't be a dream.
And now we have Regina who is working for Mr.Danzig.
Also where's Bern if that was just a dream?
She should rather be with May in their room,and she's not there.
Argh I really wonder when true story of what happened will be revealed.
I'm still thinking this is just another trial with using some shape-changing magic.
All info still could be provided by Moss easily.
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Ooh...is Lucient on the other side of the battle?
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Arm's back again.
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Guess we called it, those of us who said she just works there.
Was I the only one who said that?
P.S. You can't really tell the arm is back here. All you can see in the frame is her shoulders.
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In the first frame you can see clearly up to her left wrist.
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note that she doesn't work a bed and breakfast, but helping Danzig with his eeeeevil research in the secret laboratory of the 'good guys'.
I bet she honestly and naively thinks that what's going on is for a good cause, and that's probably the cause of discord between her and Lucient. Though I'm extremely surprised that she'd bunker up somewhere working with Moss of all people. Curiouser and curiouser.
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she has probably been fed too much propaganda about the "greater good"............mmmmmmmmmmm the greater good
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note that she doesn't work a bed and breakfast, but helping Danzig with his eeeeevil research in the secret laboratory of the 'good guys'.
I bet she honestly and naively thinks that what's going on is for a good cause, and that's probably the cause of discord between her and Lucient. Though I'm extremely surprised that she'd bunker up somewhere working with Moss of all people. Curiouser and curiouser.
Regina bunking with Moss...now that's an interesting idea.
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Regina and Moss?
...Well she did hurt herself on purpose to get Lucient's attention, so that fits in with the kind of girl Moss might like *lol*
Should we be concerned about her comment "I'm doing something important with my LIFE"
The other thing is that Danzig didn't confirm that he's working for the Thin Man. He only noted that Crest had heard of him. Beyond that, there could be more to this. I'm still concerned on how late Qtalda's team was in arriving to the rescue and her complete drive (no matter how justified) on killing Mary.
But yeah, we still don't know what the heck happened when they went into the portal. I guess we'd have to presume they were knocked out or something. If Maytag's arm really has been replaced, she may have been out of commission longer than Bern and Bern might just be practicing outside or be locked up for everyone's good until Maytag could wake up and convince her it's alright (considering her stance on sorcery).
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Is it bad that my jaw dropped? I thought her and Lucien were such a cute couple!
But if Regina's working for Danzig...is he really bad? Or is she just naive? If he's really a good guy, he's awful at his first impressions.
"We're the good guys. MU HA HA HA HA HAAA!"
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She could be naive. One important thing I seem to recall is that she was studying to become a Vespel sorceress so if her faith is in that direction you'd think it might have a large influence on her accepting to help Danzig. I'm also half suspecting that it's many of the myths and tales behind either the Vespel religion or the Knight's religion which might relate to this great truth they're trying to reveal.
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Made a couple of fixes to some recent pages:
22-26: Changed Danzig's dialog from "she has an amazing amount of essence" to "her essence has a beautiful quality to it, don't you think?"
22-29: The curls over May's ears were too short. Made them longer.
23-02: Maytag still had her left arm, it's been fixed now.
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Man, was I briefly surprised when I saw the tiny review on the current page! i thought Maytag and Regina were going to go to bed together! :o ;D Should be interesting to understand Regina's role in all of this, or if she's another illusion...
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She could be naive. One important thing I seem to recall is that she was studying to become a Vespel sorceress so if her faith is in that direction you'd think it might have a large influence on her accepting to help Danzig. I'm also half suspecting that it's many of the myths and tales behind either the Vespel religion or the Knight's religion which might relate to this great truth they're trying to reveal.
That's a good point.
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There's no "could be" about it. Regina, I suspect, is naive. Ding, ding, ding, Maytag! Blind Girl alert! ::)
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With three strips about Regina it's rather unlikely, tht this is not the real one. Unless this not being Regina is a big plot point.
I still find it hard to belive that Moss and Regina work together on the same project. Unless at least one of them has changed. A lot.
If it's not Regina, pretending a breakup with Lucient would be the thing to do. May could hav some Information, Moss can not provide. And now Maytag is unlikely to ask.
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Regina oughta say "You might be the person we're looking for".
Lovin' this section of the story. So much mystery right now, and with cool characters being introduced and re-introduced.
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I agree Umber, some bad english there.
the original
"And... you might the person we're looking for, Maytag...!"
shouldn't it be
"And... you might just be the person we're looking for, Maytag...!
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I agree Umber, some bad english there.
the original
"And... you might the person we're looking for, Maytag...!"
shouldn't it be
"And... you might just be the person we're looking for, Maytag...!
No, it's actually
"And... you might sleep with the person we're looking for, Maytag...!"
(This could be a fun game for a day or two.)
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she has probably been fed too much propaganda about the "greater good"............mmmmmmmmmmm the greater good
How can this be for the greater good?
The Greater Good...
Shut it!
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Maytag! The only one who can enter your dark cell. ;P
This page certainly raised a lot more questions than answers.
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she has probably been fed too much propaganda about the "greater good"............mmmmmmmmmmm the greater good
How can this be for the greater good?
The Greater Good...
Shut it!
FOR THE GREATER GOOD!
(http://fc04.deviantart.com/fs7/f/2006/346/8/1/Tau_Fire_Warrior_by_dukeleto.jpg)
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We get signal you might the person we're looking for great justice!
I'm thinking this "Dark Cell" might be that endless doorway. Sounds like the issue withis is feelings. I guess Crest passed some of the testing as well until he got to that image of Maytag and Bern hanging.
But damn! The truth about the world! :'(
Walk away slowly Maytag... very slowly
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May was actually trying to use the Jedi mind trick, but didn't quite manage to get her to say "not be"
At least she got her so say "person" instead of "droids" though....
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Also, they're using the 'cute and innocent' girl trick to get May to help them. Critical Damage!
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How do we know that this girl isn't an illusion as well?
I find this whole storyline rather uncomfortable to read as both reality and fantasy is hard to tell which is which.
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What if Regina was never real???
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Her mere mention that the guy in the spa was just an illusion leads me to believe she's being toyed with. I can't see why Twin1 would bother talking to it and not dismissing it if that was the case. Also sounds strange that she's not referring to Glyph as himself... Almost like she doesn't even know he's there, let alone what happened to him.
you might deflower the person we're looking for
you might feed yourself to the person we're looking for
you might stalk the person we're looking for
you might date rape the person we're looking for
you might throw a brick at the person we're looking for
you might stab the person we're looking for
HAHA the possibilities are endless!
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Maybe Maytag will accidentally herself?
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If these guys are good guys and their illusions are just friendly little tests, they sure suck at making it seem like they have good intentions.
I wonder what happened to Glyph, though? And Bern.
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"you might throw a brick at the person we're looking for"
I like that one ;D
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I can't see why Twin1 would bother talking to it and not dismissing it if that was the case.
Since it talked back (and talked about their plans and stuff), it's probably another person under the illusion. And if this strip might be taken as a random clue: http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=894 it was probably Danzig illusion-ed up to look like Glyph... or maybe he was seeing/speaking through the illusion somehow.
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Good spot, I didn't even think about the intermission with her calling him "Sir"
Certainly sounds like Danzig unless Glyph really is part of their group and has some sort of status as well *shrug*
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Oooh wooow. o__o I didn't even catch the "sir".
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"We're trying to uncover the truth about the world!"
Or, to put it another way...
"SCIENCE! (http://www.weebls-stuff.com/toons/science)"
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Seeing this newest page and "Regina" behaviour in the end I rather started to worry about Bern and other situation.
May don't be fooled!
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That view in the second to last panel - Do we need more hints on the non Reginaness of this person?
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If I remember right didnt Regina had a thing for May or amI thinking of something else?
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If I remember right didnt Regina had a thing for May or amI thinking of something else?
Maytag and Regina were really close friends, but no more than tat. Maytag affirmed that here: http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic/book0/fs26pg30.html
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hmmm, that page and THIS ONE (http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic/book0/fs26pg31.html) are worrysome.
See, it doesn't make sense that Maytag would have any reason to need more recovery time than the others. I also recall someone else saying that Bern wouldn't leave Maytag's side in such a circumstance and I tend to agree.
I'm really starting to wonder if they've read her mind about her developing feelings for Regina and are putting her to another test. Just seems odd that the normally shy Regina would be so comfortable with hugging Maytag while she was naked (and to boot, looks like Maytag's boobs have come out in those last panels.
But then again, maybe Danzig's crew are quite liberal and if she's since had some experience with intimacy she may have moved past much of it.
The whole thing is still quite odd but then Regina was a little odd (hurting herself to get a boy's attention, etc) and now she's claiming to be part of a very odd crew.
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I think Regina was aware of May's feelings and wants to play on them to get her into the "Dark Cell"
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No concern over little Ms. stumpy's new look? Odd...
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Well, I guess Regina would have already heard the story about Maytag's arm from Bern. But Maytag does have a new Jester Suit since Regina and Moss last saw her so I guess they might make a side comment on that if and when they see her later.
I'm still trying to work out how the Chapter title comes into this. Best I got is that it relates to how these nut-jobs believe in the truth/lie of the world. I'm guessing they all think they're simply shadows of their real selves in this world or something.
The only place I can think they get this from is somewhere in the breaking of seals. We've only seen a breaking of the 2nd seal (well she didn't break it, but we saw the work) and then there's the Genius in Inverness breaking her seals and somehow being a natural.
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That genius seems to be almost an informed ability. Considering that for all her genius she just got KO'd by an essence-sucking technique when she simply could have dropped a meteor on their heads...
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Dropping a meteor onto a building you are in...great idea.
This ain't final fantasy you know. ;)
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I still say she should have thrown a brick :P
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Aye what happened to the Flipside BricksTM lol
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Dropping a meteor onto a building you are in...great idea.
This ain't final fantasy you know. ;)
Sure, drop it into a building they're in. And then use some torrent to put out the fire and escape. Or gusts of wind to hurl away all the rubble.
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Now, this is definately something Moss could not have provided. Apart from some rare chances on mind reading, this has to be Regina now.
<paranoia mode>
Moss did not go to meet his uncle, instead he stalked Maytag to find something he could use later. He has seen and heared everything.
</paranoia mode>
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YAY!! I knew it, I bloddy welll knew it.......now give me my gold star for getting it!! ;D ;D ;D
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I didn't expect that, so this is real Regina.
...now we only need Bern now to walk in,drama :P
I doubt Bern would be in a mood for threesome ;)
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Ho' shit!
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That was....
...unexpected.
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So, getting kissed by a girl turns you lesbian!
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Well yes, if they're up against my patented "open mouth swirly-go-round™". ;P
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Well yes, if they're up against my patented "open mouth swirly-go-round™". ;P
Ma3 ref ftw.
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That really is a bloody great comic. Anyone who loves flipside would love Manage3
Hmmm, if they've read her mind then they'd know about her relationship with Bern which would play on this nicely. It's no-doubt going to be hard for Maytag if this is real to have someone like Regina who she really cares for, lusting after her.
In every way this just feels like she's been tested again. Maytag has an uncanny ability to read body language and notice subtle changes in people. You'd think she could tell if Regina was awake or not, plus it just seems odd for her to suddenly decide she's bisexual and be lusting after Maytag all this time but never chasing up on it.
Not to mention that Bern's not there by Maytag's side. *groan* too much mindfucking!
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fuck.
She might not be an illusion after all...
AWKWARD! :o
And Yes. I frequently post on those message boards too. I am a fan. The "Didi randomly jumping Gary's bones" storyline was so, so, because of the tease factor but usually that comic doesn't disappoint.
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fuck.
She might not be an illusion after all...
AWKWARD! :o
And Yes. I frequently post on those message boards too. I am a fan. The "Didi randomly jumping Gary's bones" storyline was so, so, because of the tease factor but usually that comic doesn't disappoint.
Really, though, did anyone expect that to end with Gary actually getting laid?
Anyways, wow, way to hijack the thread guys. :P
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Jeez, it really is true, http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ColdTurkeysAreEverywhere (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ColdTurkeysAreEverywhere). I wonder what "Regina's" reply will be when May tells her that she's now a monogamist.
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Is it bad that my jaw dropped? I thought her and Lucien were such a cute couple!
But if Regina's working for Danzig...is he really bad? Or is she just naive? If he's really a good guy, he's awful at his first impressions.
"We're the good guys. MU HA HA HA HA HAAA!"
I can't say for sure but i think Danzig might really be the good guy if he was really so incredibly evil wouldn't moss have been tripped off somehow by his eyes
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So, getting kissed by a girl turns you lesbian!
No, getting kissed by Maytag makes you a lesbian.
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(Looks at the latest page)
:'(
This is either a very convincing illusion, or there's a very good reason why she and Lucient didn't stay together ;)
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So, getting kissed by a girl turns you lesbian!
It's like how being kissed by a mermaid makes you able to breathe underwater, except the "mermaid" is Maytag and "breathing underwater" is being lesbian. Maybe it's cuz she's so sexy that anyone she kisses has their sexual preferences changed to be compatible with loving her.
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Maytag is the incarnation of the goddess of sex, who saved humanity having an orgy with every demon in the Vorpal Sea...and then had to be reborn on earth.
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I just re-read the last handful of chapters of Book 0 in light of what's happening here in Chapter 23. Regina did get awfully attached to Maytag, and even after she hooked up with Lucient, she was much more affectionate toward May. She worried about her openly, and that clearly bothered Lucient. Perhaps Regina's feelings for Maytag were what drove her and Lucient apart.
One thing struck me about May and Regina's night on the town. I remember Regina used to hurt herself to get Lucient's attention... well, when May was busy listening to the amorous couple in the booth next to theirs, Regina appeared to pass out drunk. May looks at the bottle and is like, when did you drink all that?! I wonder if Regina wasn't just putting on an act so that Maytag would take care of her? So she could be close to her?
Moss has said that Maytag's weakness is her promiscuity. I wonder now if Regina knows that May is with Bern (or even if she cares). It's unclear if she actually saw what happened in the tub or if was just told about it. But it seems to me that Regina's feelings are genuine... this could be a test for Maytag on many levels, not just the one Danzig and co. might have in store for her.
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So, getting kissed by a girl turns you lesbian!
It's like how being kissed by a mermaid makes you able to breathe underwater, except the "mermaid" is Maytag and "breathing underwater" is being lesbian. Maybe it's cuz she's so sexy that anyone she kisses has their sexual preferences changed to be compatible with loving her.
In that case I'd say kissing May enchants you to be bisexual if you aren't already a heterosexual male.
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Well, I'm hoping that kissing May enchants you to be bisexual even if you are a heterosexual male XD
...This set of events is super interesting though. Damn it Friday, come swiftly.
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You Really would enjoy watching the consequences of that wouldn't you? ;)
And I agree... Make it Friday already! (or maybe donate a few hundred) :P
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I'm lost...
Well let's see where this ride will take us.
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In that case I'd say kissing May enchants you to be bisexual if you aren't already a heterosexual male.
Or if you aren't already a homosexual female. Unless a magic hot-tub is involved, apparently.
Anyways, I'm still making the call that this isn't the real Regina. Or that if it is, she's under a spell. You get a certain amount of leeway when it comes to giving characters new traits when you reintroduce them after a long time, but really now. "I left my boyfriend, I'm bisexual, I'm in love with you even though we haven't spoken in forever, and I want to have sex with you right now even though I was nothing like that last time we spoke. Oh, and now I work for the Thin Man." is kind of pushing it.
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Anyways, I'm still making the call that this isn't the real Regina. Or that if it is, she's under a spell. You get a certain amount of leeway when it comes to giving characters new traits when you reintroduce them after a long time, but really now. "I left my boyfriend, I'm bisexual, I'm in love with you even though we haven't spoken in forever, and I want to have sex with you right now even though I was nothing like that last time we spoke. Oh, and now I work for the Thin Man." is kind of pushing it.
I don't think this is an illusion - I believe this is the real Regina. I really don't think it's that much of a stretch to see Regina acting this way towards Maytag based on what we saw in Book 0. She obviously cared very deeply about May (also look at Lucient's reaction):
http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic/book0/fs19pg11.html
She was very affectionate toward Maytag, and May was often reminding her that that sort of affection is what she should be showing to Lucient.
http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic/book0/fs26pg14.html
In many ways, Regina was naive about romantic relationships, but she's probably figured some things out since we last saw her. Things with Lucient seemed tense at times, especially in the later chapters of Book 0.
http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic/book0/fs24pg02.html
Maybe it was because Lucient was grieving, or maybe he was jealous over how freely Regina showed affection toward Maytag, saying she loved her. Perhaps that pushed Regina towards really looking at her own feelings and discovering her heart lay with May.
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So yeah. Regina suddenly become a psycho lesbian rapist!
Well, I'm hoping that kissing May enchants you to be bisexual even if you are a heterosexual male XD
...This set of events is super interesting though. Damn it Friday, come swiftly.
If by "bisexual" you mean "having sex with two women at once" then yes, totally.
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Hmm, not ready to rule out this may be an illusion.
What if they used the mind reading thing, on Maytag?
(The one she suggested they use on Bloody Mary to find about the "Thin Man".)
My Theory:
They did, and used her memory to develop another test for her to take alone, without Bern the result may change.
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DAMN!
One thing struck me about May and Regina's night on the town. I remember Regina used to hurt herself to get Lucient's attention... well, when May was busy listening to the amorous couple in the booth next to theirs, Regina appeared to pass out drunk. May looks at the bottle and is like, when did you drink all that?! I wonder if Regina wasn't just putting on an act so that Maytag would take care of her? So she could be close to her?
Thats actually a good point. So she got drunk, or pretended to be drunk so she'd get attention from Maytag.
Then again, maybe Maytag has her own curse that makes her and anyone she kisses Bi-sexual *LOL*
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In that case I'd say kissing May enchants you to be bisexual if you aren't already a heterosexual male.
Or if you aren't already a homosexual female. Unless a magic hot-tub is involved, apparently.
Anyways, I'm still making the call that this isn't the real Regina. Or that if it is, she's under a spell. You get a certain amount of leeway when it comes to giving characters new traits when you reintroduce them after a long time, but really now. "I left my boyfriend, I'm bisexual, I'm in love with you even though we haven't spoken in forever, and I want to have sex with you right now even though I was nothing like that last time we spoke. Oh, and now I work for the Thin Man." is kind of pushing it.
Well, I was always under the impression that Regina was just a little repressed, but once Maytag started getting to her she started loosening up. After the first kiss with Lucient, she was all, "Then I bit him and he didn't want to anymore :( "
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If this is the real Regina she must be a pretty powerful sorceress by now... insecurity, lack of self confidence & intimacy issues kept her from becoming level 2 before. Clearly she's gotten past all that if this is really her.. .I wonder if she's even managed to become level 3? I would love it if she's somehow managed to become even stronger than Moss.
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Actually, that raises a good point. Breaking the seals for magick seem to revolve heavily around either overcoming emotions or getting in touch with them better.
Hmmm, is it just me or do all the high-level male sorcerers seem to be cold fish while the high-level female sorcerers are all quite emotional?
Qtalda is the only female sorceress who seems to have her emotions well locked down while Danzig seems the complete opposite... Just a significant difference to note between the two... I'm not sure what level Glyph is but he's probably quite high as well so *shrug*
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Oh my...that's...kind of hot. But--wha! May's a one woman...woman now!
I wonder if Bernadette or someone will burst in, or maybe May will stop her. That would be a bit funny if Crest walked in, since he's already walked in on May on her back with a woman before.
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Wow... :-[
So I would have a boner right now if I wasn't so confused. But... what is going on? Is this a trick? Is it a trap? Another mind fuck? A temptation? A legitimate seduction? I don't know what to make of this because the last chapter has made me so paranoid of everything. And Worse, What am I supposed to make of this? Should I be in favor of this or not? Where the fuck is Bernadette? Can we really trust what this lady says about her being okay? Can we please go back to regular-not-so-twisty-mind-fuck-reality? I feel so off-balance right now. :'( :(
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C'mon Bern charge in and take her head off with one of your swords ;D ;D
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Can we please go back to regular-not-so-twisty-mind-fuck-reality?
Would you trust it even if we did?
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this almost seems like a test of May's faithfulness, although there must be someone who would've been more tempting to her?
...though I can't think of anyone we know really...
But it seems like May had more of a big-sister relationship with Regina than anything...
Regardless, I think May's got more than enough self control (and love for Bern) to stick by her word, no matter who she's tempted with.
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Thing is how would we know when normal service resumed? :'( :'( :'(
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I remember what Maytag said to Shepherd: when she sets her mind to something, she does it. And she never cracks.
Even though hooking up with Regina must be tempting for May - especially in light of what happened at the end of Book 0 (her admitting that she was starting to have feelings she shouldn't have for Regina and even kissing her when she thought Regina was passed out... also, Regina is blushing when May kisses her - looking back, it's obvious she was pretending to be passed out) - she really doesn't want to hurt Bernadette anymore. She won't give in to temptation.
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Hmm...my, Regina's developed a bit.
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So on a less than serious note, all I have to say about today's comic is "BOOBAGE OVERLOAD!"
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I remember what Maytag said to Shepherd: when she sets her mind to something, she does it. And she never cracks.
I was remembering the same thing.
No one beats May when it comes to force of will, when she applies it.
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This page is made of all kinds of epic win. Epic, epic win.
Also, the last frame is so deadpan and awkward that it made me laugh.
Also also, Regina trying to go for it even after hearing Maytag say she loves Bernadette? Not cool.
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Hahah... Denied! And by the usually-polite-about-it Maytag, too. Gotta sting.
I wonder if we can look forward to Regina becoming an antagonist over this (assuming it isn't an illusion-test of some kind).
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I'm assuming it is exactly that. If this is the real Regina without a spell on her, this is a massive case of character derailment/bad writing. I mean in one case Regina was this shy straight girl, and now she's become a bisexual sex-starved rapist?
O RLY?
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And Regina gets cockblocked.
Wait. That doesn't sound right.
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OMG Wow! Hawtness!.
Anyways. My guess at the plot is this: Willingness for sex is kind of May's weakness right? Spa scene = ability to resist magical temptation, Regina = ability to test emotional temptation. I wonder what the next "test" might be if there is one?
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And Regina gets cockblocked.
Wait. That doesn't sound right.
Lol, actually it sounds strangely appropriate...
As to the character being broken, I don't see it. It's very easy for a young person to fantasize and become infatuated with someone they haven't seen in a long time. Then if they actually try to act on that infatuation when that person comes back into their lives, they can come off as creepy and crazy without realizing it.
For the "rapist" thing, obviously nothing of the kind so far; it's just a very clumsy and awkward attempt at seduction, which is exactly what you would expect from someone so completely inexperienced and naive like Regina. Anyone past a certain age will have some experience like that sooner or later.
Now, if she keeps pushing it after May has told her no, then that would be something else, but so far? Perfectly within reason. Far from "bad writing", I find it to be pretty savvy and spot-on to how someone like Regina would act in trying to seduce somebody, without knowing the first thing about it or having a clue what she's doing.
Actually, the one puzzling me right now is Maytag, who is usually so kind and understanding about this stuff, and now she's all "SORRY NO, HERE'S A HAND IN YOUR FACE, BOOM." What's up, May :-\
Of course, it could still all be an illusion. But not like "OMG it HAS to be!!" It could be either, I think.
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And Regina gets cockblocked.
Wait. That doesn't sound right.
Actually, that's just what this comic needs.
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How long has it been approximately since Regina and Maytag have seen each other?
Also lol at the last panel. The next time I reject anyone for anything I'm just putting my entire palm on their face.
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I can honestly say that all of JewelOfSong's arguments are very valid...
However
If this is the real Regina she must be a pretty powerful sorceress by now... insecurity, lack of self confidence & intimacy issues kept her from becoming level 2 before. Clearly she's gotten past all that if this is really her.. .I wonder if she's even managed to become level 3? I would love it if she's somehow managed to become even stronger than Moss.
This really is strange. So far, all fits Regina... but what with her insecurities and intimacy issues.
It could still be aq plot and the rogue castle guys now all their skills in mind reading (Regina's mind) and playing tricks (disguised as Regina and on Maytag...)
When it's really Regina (all kudos to Jewel then :-* ) I hope we get good background info of how Regina plausible was able to change in such a short time.
And: No, just realizing that "she is not bi, but only lesbian" is not plausible... :P ;)
I remember what Maytag said to Shepherd: when she sets her mind to something, she does it. And she never cracks.
I was remembering the same thing.
No one beats May when it comes to force of will, when she applies it.
*nod nod* And we all remember that being easy and having affairs was quite important for her (due to some inner conflict, sure)
So, now being able and stand up for her one love shows that Maitag got lots of more strength...
I wonder if we can look forward to Regina becoming an antagonist over this (assuming it isn't an illusion-test of some kind).
Good thing is: the readers would win with every path from now on...
When Regina joins the rogues (as I call them) she would be - at least for some time) indeed be an antagonist...
Of course, it could still all be an illusion. But not like "OMG it HAS to be!!" It could be either, I think.
That is what this comic makes so great. That you cannot be 100% sure about such details. That's what good storytelling and characters are all about.
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Hi Rava Welcome to the forum!
So I think the palm in face move is necessary for May at this juncture. Even though she's got the willpower she needs, I'm sure all the kissing has got her somewhat turned on. I mean, she does have the anime sex blush going on...
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This page is made of all kinds of epic win. Epic, epic win.
Also, the last frame is so deadpan and awkward that it made me laugh.
Also also, Regina trying to go for it even after hearing Maytag say she loves Bernadette? Not cool.
Which would confirm to me that this isn't Regina. She would not continue to keep trying to pressure May like this. I'm going to go out on a limb and believe this is obviously a test. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong....
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Hi Rava Welcome to the forum!
Thanks. :)
So I think the palm in face move is necessary for May at this juncture. Even though she's got the willpower she needs, I'm sure all the kissing has got her somewhat turned on. I mean, she does have the anime sex blush going on...
I also think it was necessary, she already made obvious she doesn't want the kissing, and all Regina did was undressing to push it even further.
No, her hand in the face was needed, and folks remember, she only got one arm, so she cannot just hold Regina by her shoulders to shake her to reason...
Which would confirm to me that this isn't Regina. She would not continue to keep trying to pressure May like this. I'm going to go out on a limb and believe this is obviously a test. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong....
Like I already said: It could be a test by the creeps...
But still it is an believable reaction of an inexperienced emotionally overwhelmed young person, just like Tropico pointed out above.
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After all this time away from Maytag, her feelings for could have pent up to have her react this way. Besides, get a shy chick horny and God knows what will happen. The shy ones are--some of--the naughtiest. ;)
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^ It is said so for shy guys as well, but that could also end in not so pleasant ... experiences for the other person involved, but I digress..
Anyhow, back on topic, I for now think it's really Regina...
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Any time I see someone's tits I uncontrollably have to lunge at them for sex. It's just the most intimate thing ever.
Sorry, I couldn't hear you over the sound of furious fapping over this comic page.
Tits just make me so... you know. Hard. With my ten inch boner.
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But in all seriousness? I adore the particular 'deformations' of May's skin in the first panel. The way her breast lies is great. Now, her back is a little bit long, but that breast and the fold of fat beneath it, yeah, that's just... that's just awesome.
Oh, also, her arm is coming out of her neck. There's nothing suggesting her shoulder is that hiked up, as then we could clearly see the far breast and that side of the clavicle.
I meant it for the first panel, but now that I look at it, the last panel has the same thing. Needs some far definition or shoulder repositioning.
...eh?????
... wow... you're just floating along in your own little world, aren't you ???
Good luck at the Unintelligible Monologue Awards, though.
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It took about three months for Bloody Mary to turn from an innocent girl into a heartless killer. So, given that it's been a little over six months since we've seen Regina... maybe that's more than enough time for her to make a drastic change as well?
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This was probably answered years and years ago but I've always wondered- what the hell is up with that dent in Regina's hair?
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Okay, well, I was wrong about this being the real Regina. Seems Maytag is way more perceptive than I am, which isn't very surprising. I'd totally fail these tests. D:
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Heh, knew it!
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Wow, these girls are good at mind reading. And they *really* want to have sex with her. o__o Not that I can blame them, but wow are they persistent!
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Fake Regina it is. FAIL writing this is not.
Question for Brion though: how far along are the pages already drawn? As in, when you post one, how many pages beyond that are already ready to go? 10? 15?
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Yay! Called it! Of course, you all probably called it.
I'm not sure why this girl thinks Maytag would want to have sex with her, though. If she's not willing to have sex with Regina, a girl she loved, then why would she be willing to have sex with someone who tricked her?
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This was probably answered years and years ago but I've always wondered- what the hell is up with that dent in Regina's hair?
What dent? Could you give a page URL, please?
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This sounds like a good method, yup.
"Let's have sex."
Shock!
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Good Idea: disgusing yourself as an old friend to relax May
Bad Idea: asking for sex after hitting onto May and failing while disguised as an old friend
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Yeah.
I fucking hate Danzig and his goons. I hope they all get chopped up into chicklet-sized bits.
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Throw a Flispide Brick TM at her or better yet Bern comes charging in sticks one of her swords through this imposter and THEN has sex with May ;D
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Guess the "she's not real" theory was right after all...
</stating the obvious>
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Wow, these girls are good at mind reading. And they *really* want to have sex with her. o__o Not that I can blame them, but wow are they persistent!
And creepy.... We not even know who it really is...
Yeah.
I fucking hate Danzig and his goons. I hope they all get chopped up into chicklet-sized bits.
Throw a Flispide Brick TM at her or better yet Bern comes charging in sticks one of her swords through this imposter and THEN has sex with May ;D
I am OK if Oddball's idea came true... ;D
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I second that.
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This was probably answered years and years ago but I've always wondered- what the hell is up with that dent in Regina's hair?
What dent? Could you give a page URL, please?
Uhhh.. it's in every panel she's in. http://flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=905 (http://flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=905) < Panel two for that one?
It's always been there and I guess is just a part of her hair. Always reminded me of what happens when you take your hair down after wearing it in a ponytail all day long.
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Its about this point that I'm waiting for Maytag to produce a knive from her D-Bag and hold it to this bastard's throat until she's together with Bern again.
Then again, Maytag's always been the better one for talking before acting so she'll probably probe to get more information before acting on someone who's obviously a high-level sorcerer.
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Well it's good Regina is a fake.
I think that May will learn soon that Bern is held captive with others and they will get killed if she doesn't do what these guys want, meaning entering that "dark cell" or having sex first.
They rather aren't their friends at all.
Sigh...
I wonder when story will get back to Bern so we could see what's happening with her, of course we might see another illusion, or maybe May might.
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Looks like I'm safe on the limb that I went out on. ;D And I didn't see THAT coming from the phony Regina. :o "Okay, I'm not really her, but we can still do the nasty anyway!"? Is she serious?! ??? If I were May, I'd use my good arm and knock her head off! >:(
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Well it's good Regina is a fake.
That kinda came out wrong, but I get what you meat, the recent Regina we saw, not her in general.
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Jeez, this girl is persistent. Not only can she read Maytag's memories, but she's also a shapeshifter, making it that much more tempting for Maytag. But I still think she'll stick to her decision not to cheat on Bern regardless of what is thrown at her. I just hope that Bern is okay. D:
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Epic Maytag is Epic. Willpower ftw.
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Jeez, this girl is persistent. Not only can she read Maytag's memories, but she's also a shapeshifter, making it that much more tempting for Maytag. But I still think she'll stick to her decision not to cheat on Bern regardless of what is thrown at her. I just hope that Bern is okay. D:
How do you know that the shapeshifter is a girl?
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Hmm...Umber AND Crest. My, my.
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I'll take her if Maytag doesn't. To hell with reality.
How do you know that the shapeshifter is a girl?
Aaaand my interest is gone just like that.
Which brings up... what if this shapeshifter is actually Glyph?
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Jeez, this girl is persistent. Not only can she read Maytag's memories, but she's also a shapeshifter, making it that much more tempting for Maytag. But I still think she'll stick to her decision not to cheat on Bern regardless of what is thrown at her. I just hope that Bern is okay. D:
How do you know that the shapeshifter is a girl?
Well, I suppose I don't know that she's really a girl... I assumed she and her twin were though, based on the cover for Chapter 21: http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=814
Although, perhaps they aren't twins and are actually the same person, since she clearly can appear as more than one person.
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Jeez, this girl is persistent. Not only can she read Maytag's memories, but she's also a shapeshifter, making it that much more tempting for Maytag. But I still think she'll stick to her decision not to cheat on Bern regardless of what is thrown at her. I just hope that Bern is okay. D:
How do you know that the shapeshifter is a girl?
Well, I suppose I don't know that she's really a girl... I assumed she and her twin were though, based on the cover for Chapter 21: http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=814
Although, perhaps they aren't twins and are actually the same person, since she clearly can appear as more than one person.
Do we know it's a twin though? Initially we thought that because "Glyph" was with one of the twins. But this could be someone totally different and the other twin was merely absent.
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Called it.
Also, Maytag remains a complete badass while cuddling childishly with a pillow.
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Jeez, this girl is persistent. Not only can she read Maytag's memories, but she's also a shapeshifter, making it that much more tempting for Maytag. But I still think she'll stick to her decision not to cheat on Bern regardless of what is thrown at her. I just hope that Bern is okay. D:
How do you know that the shapeshifter is a girl?
Well, I suppose I don't know that she's really a girl... I assumed she and her twin were though, based on the cover for Chapter 21: http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=814
Although, perhaps they aren't twins and are actually the same person, since she clearly can appear as more than one person.
Do we know it's a twin though? Initially we thought that because "Glyph" was with one of the twins. But this could be someone totally different and the other twin was merely absent.
True, I am only assuming it's one of the twins based on what happened in the tub. I guess we don't really know anything for sure except that we can't trust anything we see. :P
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Wow, an Umber and Crest orgy. o.o These guys are very persistent. Maybe because Moss told them she's a slut. That promiscuity is her weakness, but he only saw that several months ago. He could think it still is her weakness. Maybe it is, but she's fighting it.
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Wow, an Umber and Crest orgy. o.o These guys are very persistent. Maybe because Moss told them she's a slut. That promiscuity is her weakness, but he only saw that several months ago. He could think it still is her weakness. Maybe it is, but she's fighting it.
Maybe, although the twins (assuming it's one of them and not someone else with Maytag right now) seem to have the ability to read memories in addition to shapeshifting. Moss wouldn't even need to tell them anything. And he did see May and co coming into the Bed and Breakfast. He was spying on them, so he obviously saw May. I do think promiscuity still is May's weakness.
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Moss wouldn't need to say anything if only because they could read the memory of Moss telling Maytag her weakness. I wonder if Suit Maytag can keep them from reading memories...
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Just because something is your weakness, doesn't mean you crumble in the face of it all the time. It just ups the ante. I think they're trying to push her to her cracking point, more tests.
And yeah, May is still badass, yet adorable while cuddling a pillow.
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It's what they're attacking though. Her supposed weakness appears to be the very thing they're trying to crack.
Certainly Maytag shows some remorse over her promiscuity. I wouldn't say she's ashamed of her sexual actions as much as she is upset that she seems to lack willpower when it comes to controlling her urges (although I think she commented that it's her believe in following urges *shrug*)
The pillow works on a number of levels. It's something to cover her up, to put between herself and them as well as a level of comfort.
Maytag is being her usual forgiving and inquisitive self asking after this person's abilities and motives. She's being gentle now but sooner or later she'll remember Bern and ask after her.
I'm willing to agree with the statement that this is the "twins" and that the twins are actually one person making multiple copies of herself or any form she desires. Hence the comment that she never does anything to anyone that she hasn't done to herself. It probably means that she could make a clone and dismember or kill it with little or no effect to her self. That could be the cause of her weakness that Moss spoke of. Maybe she has no respect or compassion for others.
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Heh, I just realized that Xshu's signature is my signature on another forum. Glad to see I'm not the only one who likes that quote.
Anyways, back on the subject.
Perhaps you are right charles, and it is one person.
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I started to think that about the doppletwins as well, that it is just one shapeshifting what not.
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Read this while reading through the past months' stuff:
Maytag talking about how high-level sorcerers can read memories. Nothing too revealing, but~
(http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic/com-flip18-28.gif)
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Maybe, although the twins (assuming it's one of them and not someone else with Maytag right now) seem to have the ability to read memories in addition to shapeshifting. Moss wouldn't even need to tell them anything. And he did see May and co coming into the Bed and Breakfast. He was spying on them, so he obviously saw May. I do think promiscuity still is May's weakness.
It seems like it, but she manages to fight, at least for now...
@crazy_razor:
Good find. Now, I cannot recall, but I think a shapeshifter is a high level sorcerer.
And I was right with one thing: All folks of that castle are creeps...
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Haa!
That's what i'm talking about. Way to go, May! <3
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This doppelganger isn't that bright, it would have had a way better chance to make itself into Bern and another person X and get May to do things.
All it would have to do is read Bern's memories too, as to get a grip on her personality, and have other person be all persuasive and what not.
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I have never liked Maytag more.
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Somehow I'm proud of May now ;)
If you have monogamous relationship and you agreed on it, stick to it till the end.
Still I too wonder why that shapeshifter won't change into Bern plus Regina/Umber and then they would try to corrupt May into threesome like she always dreamed to try such things with Bern.
But we should remember that earlier test with "Glyph" and real charmed Bern failed, cause May knew Bern would not do such things willingly.
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This doppelganger isn't that bright, it would have had a way better chance to make itself into Bern and another person X and get May to do things.
All it would have to do is read Bern's memories too, as to get a grip on her personality, and have other person be all persuasive and what not.
I think May would know something was up if Bern started being open to threesomes.
But yeah, "I'm bored". Way to show the burn, May.
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HEHEHE May Blocked :P
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Go Maytag! Great line, way to throw your wannabe seducer off their game. ;D
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Oh man, May is so awesome.
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So why is it that whenever a shape-shifting character turns up it has to have a "true" form? An amoeba doesn't have a true form... for all Maytag knows, this person has no true form and spends his/her whole life shaped like one person or another.
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A threesome using Bern isn't what I meant...
I meant if there really is the goal of getting Maytag to go into the "Dark Cell" using a stubborn Bern that gradually shows interest and then a final worried "Maybe you should do it"
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Moss wouldn't need to say anything if only because they could read the memory of Moss telling Maytag her weakness. I wonder if Suit Maytag can keep them from reading memories...
Ah, you're right. Didn't think about that.
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So why is it that whenever a shape-shifting character turns up it has to have a "true" form? An amoeba doesn't have a true form... for all Maytag knows, this person has no true form and spends his/her whole life shaped like one person or another.
Technically an amoeba's true form is an amorphous single cell.
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Go Maytag! Great line, way to throw your wannabe seducer off their game. ;D
Really, especially with the *meh bored* facial expression...
Maytag wins in that indeed. ;D :-*
So why is it that whenever a shape-shifting character turns up it has to have a "true" form? An amoeba doesn't have a true form... for all Maytag knows, this person has no true form and spends his/her whole life shaped like one person or another.
When the shape shifter became one through magic, (s)he das a form prior being a shape shifter, so... :P
And I presume the shape shifter is one of the girls from the chapter title page...
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Denied ;D! Way to go, May! Although I was secretly hoping for some hot sex :D.
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Denied ;D! Way to go, May! Although I was secretly hoping for some hot sex :D.
Oh we can still have that, with Maytag and her true love, that is... ;D
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Perhaps the reason that Bern isn't among the options overtly discussed is that this has been - as others have pointed out - a test to see if they can crack Maytag's biggest weakness. Granted, her feelings/commitment to Bern kinda counts as one but it seems like they really want her to be unfaithful. To have May break her resolve to be monogamous even in the face of her deep set desire to be otherwise. In that case pretending to be Bern wouldn't really accomplish that goal.
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Just a wild thought. would the "twins" try to copy Bern now?
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May, you're fucking badass. Just saying.
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Perhaps the reason that Bern isn't among the options overtly discussed is that this has been - as others have pointed out - a test to see if they can crack Maytag's biggest weakness. Granted, her feelings/commitment to Bern kinda counts as one but it seems like they really want her to be unfaithful. To have May break her resolve to be monogamous even in the face of her deep set desire to be otherwise. In that case pretending to be Bern wouldn't really accomplish that goal.
That's how I see it as well, it's some kind of challenge. Eager awaiting what the motives for all that are (aside from the sex-wanting) and also if the shape shifter is one of the female twins...
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*Nods and grins smugly* v nice brion. i was wondering when it would get to that.
and to quote Monty Python's Holy Grail let's please do : "Get On With IT!" ;D
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Maybe it's just me, but didn't Maytag somehow regenerated her lost arm in the last panel of page 12?
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I guess May is thinking about her jester suit in the last panel. She could need a boost right now.
This Morgana is an other experiment of the thin man?
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Would you like some clothing?
DUH! ::)
We haven't seen her face but it looks like this person is a female after all.
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Wasn't this new character shown in some older intermission as I recall?
Still I want to know what is going with others, especially Bern.
This room looks like a cell so we may assume others are locked up as not needed material somewhere else.
If this Fata Morgana can manipulate mind and create such powerful illusions as her name states then I wonder what was real from time our group entered this building and what was not.
Since she told that Glyph in the bath was illusion, but Bern and that other twin rather looked like real deal.
Or maybe everything from start was just happening in May's head when she was held in this room all the time, but that would not explain what Crest and Suspiria were doing earlier with Danzig.
I hope it will be explained in next few pages what was real and what's not.
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Wasn't this new character shown in some older intermission as I recall?
Still I want to know what is going with others, especially Bern.
This room looks like a cell so we may assume others are locked up as not needed material somewhere else.
If this Fata Morgana can manipulate mind and create such powerful illusions as her name states then I wonder what was real from time our group entered this building and what was not.
Since she told that Glyph in the bath was illusion, but Bern and that other twin rather looked like real deal.
Or maybe everything from start was just happening in May's head when she was held in this room all the time, but that would not explain what Crest and Suspiria were doing earlier with Danzig.
I hope it will be explained in next few pages what was real and what's not.
Why yes. Yes, she was in an intermission.
http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=666
Given the page number, she must be pure evil.
Pure delicious evil. Yum.
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EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE Fata Morgana's been introduced now! :-* (luv her outfit)
But wait... that's the last of the unintroduced intermission characters... now who are we going to wonder about the identity of?
Guess Brion'll have to make up some new ones for the next intermission.
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Perhaps the reason that Bern isn't among the options overtly discussed is that this has been - as others have pointed out - a test to see if they can crack Maytag's biggest weakness. Granted, her feelings/commitment to Bern kinda counts as one but it seems like they really want her to be unfaithful. To have May break her resolve to be monogamous even in the face of her deep set desire to be otherwise. In that case pretending to be Bern wouldn't really accomplish that goal.
That's how I see it as well, it's some kind of challenge. Eager awaiting what the motives for all that are (aside from the sex-wanting) and also if the shape shifter is one of the female twins...
And it's her weakness (as pointed out by Moss) that they seem intent on testing.
I'm thinking that all these people with Danzig are "cursed" much like Moss. Escher, Fata Morgana, The Twins heck, maybe even the dog, Maximillian.
I'm betting thats why Fata's bottom half isn't showing. Maybe she doesn't even have a true form, or her abilities stem from a curse which causes her other problems. The interesting thing about her illusions seems to be that they are more real or solid. Heck if mental state is her speciality then maybe she just messes with people's perceptions.
P.S. anyone else note that although the apparently aren't nice enought to put them in the nice rooms instead of the dungeon?
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Why yes. Yes, she was in an intermission.
http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=666
Given the page number, she must be pure evil.
Pure delicious evil. Yum.
Some interesting foreshadowing. I guess Maytag wasn't "good". :P
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Nice use of meaningful names there Brion. For those that don't know, Fata Morgana is the Italian translation of Morgan le Fay, the shapeshifting half-sis of King Arthur. Right now I'm just wondering if it really is gonna be Moss coming out of that door, or if Brion is just trolling us. Either way, it'll be fun. ;D
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They must know that she knows Moss, right?
Either way, sharp as ever, May.
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Well we saw Moss with these twins earlier at some panel.
http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=827
Maybe he didn't tell them he knows her, so Fata M might get another surprise beside May behaviour.
Moss info is outdated, currently May biggest strenght and weakness at the same time is Bern.
Still I wonder what's the deal with May outfit, she was nude, but these clothes are illusion in which May belives so they exist,right?
Cause Fata M can't be so powerful to create solid something from nowhere.
Also as I recall this panel with Glyph face rather prooves he's not with this new group, he was rather shocked at beginning as everyone else beside May.
http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=824
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Well, if they read her memories for Regina and Umber, they would have seen Moss too, wouldn't they?
But then...if they knew Moss was there, why not tell May? Even if they were trying to hide it, you'd think FM would know mentioning the weakness bit would be a dead giveaway.
Unless she only probed the memories for possible people she was sexually attracted to.
Right now I'm going to say they don't know Moss and Maytag know each other.
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Still I wonder what's the deal with May outfit, she was nude, but these clothes are illusion in which May belives so they exist,right?
Cause Fata M can't be so powerful to create solid something from nowhere.
I'd guess Maytag had spare clothes in her d-bag.
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Still I wonder what's the deal with May outfit, she was nude, but these clothes are illusion in which May belives so they exist,right?
Cause Fata M can't be so powerful to create solid something from nowhere.
I'd guess Maytag had spare clothes in her d-bag.
The truth is that Maytag really isn't there. That it's another one of Fata's illusions and that Fata is actually talking to herself.
Boy, that's a cool power to have if you have a habit of talking to yourself. It would make people around you think you're sane.
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Still I wonder what's the deal with May outfit, she was nude, but these clothes are illusion in which May belives so they exist,right?
Cause Fata M can't be so powerful to create solid something from nowhere.
I'd guess Maytag had spare clothes in her d-bag.
The truth is that Maytag really isn't there. That it's another one of Fata's illusions and that Fata is actually talking to herself.
Boy, that's a cool power to have if you have a habit of talking to yourself. It would make people around you think you're sane.
Hehehe, I just cracked up over here.
And, it could still be an illusion, not another set of clothes. If you can trick your mind into thinking it's seeing something, it's simple to think that you could trick the mind into thinking it's feeling, or smelling, or hearing something it's not as well.
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Hmm...so if Maytag has overcome her previous weakness, does that mean Moss will see another kind of weakness when he next beholds her? Provided she HAS any weaknesses anymore. ::)
(Bah, "promiscuity". You call THAT a weakness?!)
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I wonder what kind of creature Fata Morgana is, or is it just a trick, the missing lower body... :o
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Hmm...so if Maytag has overcome her previous weakness, does that mean Moss will see another kind of weakness when he next beholds her? Provided she HAS any weaknesses anymore. ::)
(Bah, "promiscuity". You call THAT a weakness?!)
Shure, she has overcome her weakness? Moss also could not break her before.
But well, that was with her costume on.
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Hmm...so if Maytag has overcome her previous weakness, does that mean Moss will see another kind of weakness when he next beholds her? Provided she HAS any weaknesses anymore. ::)
(Bah, "promiscuity". You call THAT a weakness?!)
I think you might be right.. granted I see Maytag as having many weaknesses. She strikes me as a passionate person, someone who feels things very deeply - whether it be love, lust, pain or even fear which leaves her open to many weaknesses. But she has the unusual ability of acknowledging these feelings in such a way that they lose their hold over her. It's like she can say "Okay.. I am feeling this.. I acknowledge this.. and now I am going to move past it." And she actually does. Granted she can certainly be killed, or out smarted, crippled, ect.. but there may be almost no situations where she can't subsume the emotions that would overwhelm a different person and then regain her mind to intelligently deal with the situation.
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I'm still betting that all/most of the people working for/with Danzig are cursed in some way. Much like Moss.
Hard to say how many of Maytag's memories they read. You'd think that surely they target certain areas rather than try to soak in someone's full life, so if Fata was informed of Maytag's promiscuity, she may have only done a search for the people Maytag is most attracted to, together with what her fantasies and desires are.
*meh* or Fata's mentioning and setting this up on purpose in order to reintroduce Maytag and Moss to each other... Gotta love someone who fucks with minds :P
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Wouldn't it be interesting if Fata, like, wasn't real?
Like she was cursed to just be illusions and can't actually affect anything.
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Hmm intresting instead of a ship of the dammed a B & B of the cursed :) sounds like a fun place to visit but not to stay.
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Guess we aren't going to see Moss just yet. :-\
And I do wonder where Fata Morgana is going with this "sexual deviancy" thing.
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Oh brother, did she just liken homosexuality to incest, bestiality, pedophilia and necrophilia? :'(
Right or wrong in her views, she just opened a can of worms.
(Intentional sidestepping of stating own opinion)
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Grr! Stop filibustering and bring Moss back already! :P
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Hmm, I wonder what Fata wants to win with such talk...
She won't shock or discourage May or anything.
Maybe it would work on Bern saying she's weird cause she's lesbian but May?
Blind shot?
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trying to get some sort of reaction out of May I think. So far all atempts have failed so why not make May angry some how.
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trying to get some sort of reaction out of May I think. So far all atempts have failed so why not make May angry some how.
Good point. If they really do want Maytag to enter Dark Cell, she probably needs to be unflappable.
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trying to get some sort of reaction out of May I think. So far all atempts have failed so why not make May angry some how.
That makes sense. Rag on her sexual identity and views and make misconceptions and try to get her to freak out and correct you.
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Oh brother, did she just liken homosexuality to incest, bestiality, pedophilia and necrophilia? :'(
Right or wrong in her views, she just opened a can of worms.
(Intentional sidestepping of stating own opinion)
Ah, but she only likened homosexuality to those things only from the standpoint of how those who are against homosexuality treats it. Is it wrong to conclude that those who are against it, places it in the same category as incest, pedophilia and the sort? For them, you can even add in polygamy. She's not giving her opinion on homosexuality.
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interesting outlook, but i wonder, why she would bring up such a thing....? it's interesting, perhaps this bring up May's homosexuality(bisexuality if you will) in efforts to cause, yet again, conflict between bern and herself? i wonder if moss will reveal bern'sweakness and bring out something new. but hell what do i know.
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I foresee in the near future the scene where Maytag and FM have sex (http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=666).
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maytag already rejected regina and umber, albeit they were both fake, and she's a nympho soooo it's possible but so far i'm not convinced. although moss's crazy torture spells would be fun to see again... nothing like torturing one's enemies until they scream death
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hmmm, I think Fata is on to something here.
At first I thought she might be trying to win Maytag over to their side. Note how sexual deviants, such as Maytag herself, are generally shunned by society then bring it around to how the cursed are also shunned and rejected by it. Try to establish some common ground between them all.
But now I'm thinking she's taking a different approach to attacking Maytag's weakness. Instead she's now probing/attacking her opinions on but subject and seeing if she can get a rise out of her like that... Interesting.
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All I can see are Fata's eyes but... those are some sexy eyes. DAMN. I like her already.
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All I can see are Fata's eyes but... those are some sexy eyes. DAMN. I like her already.
lol
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However, those deviancies are not even remotely the same to same-sex relationships. Most of them either inherently lack consent, or would regularly lack consent due to the power imbalances. The same thing got touched on a while back in Faans, though in that case it was being compared to a menage a trois.
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The thing that is most noticeable to me is the fact the comic cuts out at the midpoint of her sentence. She may be flagrantly comparing homosexuality to raping chickens and young children, but it is impossible to disagree with her without hearing her complete thought.
But... well... sodomy is not the same as pedophilia. Just sayin'.
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That woman is silly.
Feeling 'disgusted' by sex is hardly a 'natural' reaction, it's a trained reaction by society who deemed sex to be 'taboo' and 'disgusting', even more so if it is out of the 'norm'.
Also 'desirable sex just being an illusion due to chemicals in our brain' is a huge oxymoron.
EVERYTHING is an 'illusion due to chemicals in our brain' by that logic.
'Chocolate tasting sweet is just an illusion because of chemicals in your brain' durrr.
Who says reality itself isn't an illusion? Philosophers have been debating about that for centuries.
We're all in a matrix waiting to be saved by neo jesus anyway.
...
...
Oh my god brion please tell me this is not about to turn into a 'matrix' storyline.
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This Morgana woman really has some very strange ideas. She probably did not look very far above the horizon of her own culture?
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I agree with Fata Morgana. Sex is totally disgusting.
It's only when you find something attractive or arousing that makes sex desirable.
Most biological things are disgusting. Take eating for example. All that chewing and saliva. Gross. But people still do it because of the urge of hunger.
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I think the last sentence of that page is intriguing.
Sex is frking weird, at the least, and certainly arguably disgusting. I kinda like the way she's looking at it.
I don't even care how hot the person is, it's still weird to put yourself inside someone else or have someone stick some part of themself in you. Mentally, at least. Of course, the way to enjoy it is to not examine it mentally...
but still, both penises and vaginas are weird and most definitely arguably gross. The combination of the two? Just nasty!!
Now leopard slug sex (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSW9kWIRCOQ) on the other hand? A beautiful thing. Not gross at all.
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Now leopard slug sex (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSW9kWIRCOQ) on the other hand? A beautiful thing. Not gross at all.
That's.....that's just wrong.
How could something like that arouse me?
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The thing that is most noticeable to me is the fact the comic cuts out at the midpoint of her sentence. She may be flagrantly comparing homosexuality to raping chickens and young children, but it is impossible to disagree with her without hearing her complete thought.
But... well... sodomy is not the same as pedophilia. Just sayin'.
But in the same light, raping chickens is not the same as raping young children and Necrophilia is not the same as incest. But Fata isn't trying to compare them directly with each other. She's saying that they share a common perception from society, broadly, that deems them as gross. It might be better if you bullet point it.
Society generally deems Homosexuality as gross/disgusting/undesirable.
Society generally deems Incest as gross/disgusting/undesirable.
Society generally deems Pedophilia as gross/disgusting/undesirable.
Society generally deems Sex with old people as gross/disgusting/undesirable.
Society generally deems Homosexuality as gross/disgusting/undesirable.
She also didn't mention anything about rape. She just called it pedophilia (actually I'm not sure if she mentioned bestiality either). Sure a pedophile could rape by having sex with a child without the child's consent or against their will, but if it's consensual then the general belief/perception by people is that the child is not mature enough, or is too easily manipulated by an older person, to grant consent (much like they aren't considered mature enough to sign a contract without an adult guardian's supervision, or mature enough to enter into marriage).
Fata then goes on to make her point that each of us categorizes various different sexual activities into desirable or undesirable but that desirable sex is an illusion created by the chemicals in our brain. Heck, a straight pedophile may well find homosexuality disgusting.
I'm trying to work out what Fata's game is here. Maytag knows she's playing mindfuck games here so she's well aware that there's probably an ulterior motive behind what Fata's saying besides simply sharing her opinions and beliefs. She knows Moss is involved somewhere and she has no idea what happened to the others. One minute she's enjoying a bath with Bern, next she's escaping with Bern and suddenly she wakes up to this mindfuck game.
NOTE!: Bern is a lesbian and thus, should find straight sex undesirable, but the enchanted bath seemed to allow or cause her to find straight sex desirable. You could also argue that she's all for monogamy and probably against group sex but the enchantment allowed or caused her to shed all that.
************
The one interesting thing that occurs to me here is possession. How does a possession work? We know that the potion is created using some of the possessor's spirit essence, but when they take over someone is it just sort of transmitting that person's brain signals over to the recipient, or is that person's "being"/"essence"/"self" now in the brain of the possessed and experiencing all the chemical signals of their brain?
Heck, if Maytag had fed Bloody Mary some of her potion of possession and taken her over, would she have come under the effect of her permanent bloodlust? (Actually, why didn't Maytag use that to get out of there? Make the bottle appear on the end of her arm just as BM is coming in for a bite, or even pull it out and put it on the end and call is seasoning. Take over BM and away you go. I can only guess that some level of consent may be required for the potion to work *shrug*).
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I think the direction Fata Morgana is (consciously or not) going in is that humans find others having sex to be unattractive and only find sex attractive when they have a shot at participating and there's a possibility of it resulting in successful reproduction.
Why?
Well, because like all other animals it is our instinct to replicate our own genes at the expense of everyone else's. Thus it makes sense to have a primal urge to stop all sex that doesn't help you replicate your genes.
The world of sexual reproduction is fierce and unforgiving. Why Fata Morgana is going in this direction, I have yet to figure out.
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I agree that Fata's argument is interesting, but I don't completely agree with the argument itself. It probably applies to most people, but not all people, and is therefore somewhat of a generalization. Personally, I'm opposed to bestiality, incest and pedophilia, and find them to be disgusting, but while the other forms of sex don't appeal to me, I wouldn't outright say that they are disgusting. Mostly, that's because I don't feel that it is my place to judge what is morally right or wrong, provided that the sex is between two consenting human adults. Fata didn't bring up polygamy, but the only reason that polygamy is wrong and illegal is because of religious reasons. Of course, there are ways around that, since polyamory and group sex are not illegal, so anyone can have an open marriage if they so choose. As for the sex act itself, it's not always an appealing sight, especially if the participants are not attractive to the viewer (who may or may not also be a participant). Finally, as for what Fata's goal is, it's too early to tell. My best guess is that since she can't use Maytag's sexual appetite against her, she's trying to eliminate that sexual appetite, and then somehow use that against her.
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Fata has arrived at the correct conclusion by taking two wrong turns.
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As they say, two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
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Yeah, Fata made the comment that her little stunt was never going to work, so then she's left wondering just HOW promiscuity is Maytag's weakness (hell, I'd wager that Maytag could resist/stop, even if they'd woken her up in the enchanted bath).
Essentially all their tests seem to revolve around finding out if someone is in control of their body, or if their body is in control of them. So if we presume that Fata is explaining something and not trying to provoke Maytag, then what she's potentially explaining is that sexual desire is caused by our body and thus, following our sexual desires is giving into our body's desires rather than following our own. Heck, all the spells that adjust people's personalities (such as bloodlust and aphrodisiac) could possibly be spells that actually affect the body's chemical responses and balance. By resisting the enchantment, Maytag showed that even with her body's chemical messages for sex in overdrive, she was able to ignore it and control her body rather than let it control her.
So for some reason, they're after a person who can resist those chemical messages from the body. For instance, Maytag breaking down after she tried to save Bern from Derriks', is an example of her giving into her body's chemical messages to panic and loose ration. But (as she herself said at the time) Maytag then purged herself of those emotions and became nothing more than a force of cold calculation with a single goal in mind to save Bern from Derriks' torture by killing her or taking on the suffering.
...Actually... That makes me wonder about the Xibulba collar... We saw the effect it had on Maytag in the intermission where she basically gave completely into her promiscuity. So the particular characteristic it enhances, appears to be associated with the person's weakness, causing them to loose all self control over what is presumably a desire created by their body's chemical system which was already wired or chemically overbalanced, slightly or greatly, in the direction of the perceived weakness.
Just an interesting note that magick in Flipside appears to be strong associated with a person's brain, or being and that many of the enchantments that we've seen have made some significant adjustment to the desires created by the body.
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How the hell is promiscuity even a weakness anyway?
If anything, being extremely uptight about sexuality is a weakness and not the opposite.
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Well... Thats sort of what Fata Morgana is now asking herself. She's worked out that the whole orgy offer was never going to work, so she's now asking the question "HOW is promiscuity Maytag's weakness".
But seriously promiscuity CAN be a weakness. Heck, there are serious sex addicts out there and I've even worked with one. The poor girl was simply obsessed and addicted to sex to such an extent that it was a detrement to the rest of her life. She would be arranging to have sex during her lunch hour and even during work hours, in online adult chat sites. In essence, sex controlled her life and thats the case for some individuals out there.
Certainly I believe people can be promiscuous to an extent and it not be a worry on the rest of their life (in fact it can be a good and happy thing in their life) but its an addiction when you feel helpless to control the desires when you feel you need to in order to achieve other goals and dreams. Essentially, its a problem when it's an obsession.
The point that I think Fata Morgana is making now is that everybody's DEFAULT reaction to sex is disgust and then we make exceptions to certain kinds/categories of sexual activity. Sort of like a firewall on a computer which, by default, blocks all traffic except that which is permitted or desired. But in Maytag's case, it could be said that her firewall is set to "Allow all". In other words, unlike everybody else, her DEFAULT reaction to sex is always "desire".
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This is the part where Maytag turns it around and gets Fata Morgan fired up *PMSL*
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Fata's take is interesting, but based on my observations and experiences I don't agree with it. As human beings, our natural tendency on a base level is to desire food and sex.
Also, the "ever notice how children are disgusted by the idea of sex until they hit puberty" is something I don't agree with at all. Maybe I was just a weird kid, but I was very interested in kissing and touching other girls for as long as I can remember. Not to mention, how many kids play "doctor?" :P
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How the hell is promiscuity even a weakness anyway?
If anything, being extremely uptight about sexuality is a weakness and not the opposite.
I'd ask the opposite. Being promiscuous is weakness because you are easily tempted into sex.
Someone who is uptight would not have this weakness (though they may have another).
Maytag has strong enough willpower to resist the temptation, obviously.
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Well, anyone has the power to resist the chemical signals of the body. Pain, pleasure...emotions. Mind over body, it's better to think about things clearly and make rational choices from that place. Some people choose to let their bodies control them, because it's easier or whatever, but it's still a choice anyone has the power to make.
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Well, anyone has the power to resist the chemical signals of the body. Pain, pleasure...emotions. Mind over body, it's better to think about things clearly and make rational choices from that place. Some people choose to let their bodies control them, because it's easier or whatever, but it's still a choice anyone has the power to make.
Here's a question: Is "resistance" just another chemical signal?
It may not be quite as obvious as, say, a pain reaction or a sex drive, but what if you have drives for something else?
Maytag is pretty solidly now resisting her urges to have sex (to the point it doesn't seem like she even has them anymore...she was pretty cold with Fata just now, though I'm thinking she was generally weirded out enough that she wouldn't have gone through with it even if it was without Bern being a problem).
But isn't what she feels also a chemical reaction towards Bern, which has a stronger impulse in her mind then free promiscuous sex.
I've always wondered that. People say you can resist your emotions, but isn't that itself its own impulse? Can you "resist" the resistance? I know lots of people (read: me) that lock up their emotions and have trouble feeling them at all.
Sex, hunger, emotion, they are all chemical signals. But the fact that one can become aware of this, consider it, and try to reject those impulse is also the result of chemical reaction, as all though is, is it not?
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Well, it's more the result of electrical signals racing through your brain, and not chemical signals. You could say the entire process was natural, even the thoughts you are thinking now. Devices now exist in the analog that control the input/output of various neural tasks, such as vision, though they are crude. But that line of thought is fruitless. It is still your thinking that's in control, which you control... and not chemicals.
I'm a very unemotional person, but I like being that way. Having an off switch for your emotions isn't exactly healthy, but thinking rationally > living off of emotion.
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Well, it's more the result of electrical signals racing through your brain, and not chemical signals. You could say the entire process was natural, even the thoughts you are thinking now. Devices now exist in the analog that control the input/output of various neural tasks, such as vision, though they are crude. But that line of thought is fruitless. It is still your thinking that's in control, which you control... and not chemicals.
I'm a very unemotional person, but I like being that way. Having an off switch for your emotions isn't exactly healthy, but thinking rationally > living off of emotion.
Well, yeah, electricity and stuff. I'm not as up and up on exactly how the nervous system works as I should.
But the point is do you really control your thoughts?
Maybe you are thinking about something. Maybe you have an image in your head. You know the type. You probably saw it on the internet.
But you are thinking about it, because you saw it, and the image is in your mind's eye. You want to remove it, so you concentrate, and get it off your mind.
You did this out of your willpower, but you would not have done it had you not had the impulse to do so.
Or if you decide to not have a dozen donuts for breakfast? You do so because your have an impulse to take care of your health. Your action is your "choice", but your reason for it is not. You didn't "decide" to value your health, you just did.
So which is it? Did you choose to follow your desire for health? Or was that drive merely stronger than your gluttony?
?
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That woman just spews out more sillyness.
People wear clothes because they've seen other people wear clothes for their entire life, thus it is 'normal'. It is obviously trained by society.
It doesn't even require much science to find that out, a working brain does too.
There are different societies where everyone runs around naked all day, I don't think they view the human body as 'disgusting' and clothes might appear 'disgusting' to them.
Or at least weird. 'Unnormal'.
Furthermore, children are disgusted by sex because they have probably never been confronted with it before.
It's new, it is scary and mommy/daddy has probably told them how dirty their sexual organs are and that they should be ashamed of them, should hide them etc.
It is all deeply rooted in society.
A messed up society where violence is viewed as less disgusting than making love.
Also the next thing may will say is 'But I don't agree with it.'.
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Really don't like people that have different ideas from you, eh 9_6?
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Really don't like people that have different ideas from you, eh 9_6?
Am I wrong?
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Really don't like people that have different ideas from you, eh 9_6?
Am I wrong?
Your whole argument is basically "it's just society".
But why would society develop those norms if there wasn't some natural impulse towards them?
I'm not saying you're right or wrong, but her philosophy might have more merit to it than you think.
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I wear clothes because its cold up here in "Sunny" Scotland now and they keep me warm.............plus I would get arrested for indecent exposure by the police.
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Your whole argument is basically "it's just society".
But why would society develop those norms if there wasn't some natural impulse towards them?
I'm not saying you're right or wrong, but her philosophy might have more merit to it than you think.
I don't know how society developed it. I didn't study that kind of stuff.
Maybe at some point, people covered themselves in the pelt of animals, thus clothing was born.
Then, someone somehow got the idea to declare sex as 'disgusting', for some reason that idea spread (religion?) and even to this day, has a very tight grip on society.
My point is that I doubt that being disgusted by something as natural as sex is a 'natural' reaction at all.
Using that as a basis for argumentation just seems wrong to me.
Being disgusted by necrophilia, zoophilia etc. might be natural since you can get serious diseases from that (and being disgusted by stuff that can make you sick is natural. If something tastes funny, you spit it out. If it smells odd, you don't eat it) but extrapolating that to the general statement 'sex=disgusting=natural' does not compute for me.
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I don't know how society developed it or anything.
Maybe at some point, people covered themselves in the pelt of animals, thus clothing was born.
Then, someone somehow got the idea to declare sex as 'disgusting', for some reason that idea spread (religion?) and even to this day, has a very tight grip on the society.
My point is that I doubt that being disgusted by something as natural as sex is a 'natural' reaction at all.
People are disgusted by a lot of 'natural' things. Other bodily functions, such as waste. Bugs. Etc. It wouldn't arise if there weren't some natural inclination towards it. And you can't blame religion, especially if you believe religion was created by humans, because in order for people to be indoctrinated with religious ideas from birth, a group of people would have had to felt that way themselves and instituted them as religion.
Now, obviously not everyone has the same 'nature', and some people resist society and have different values concerning this.
But it's definitely not enough for you to dogmatically condemn the idea as "silly".
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I didn't say 'disgust' wasn't a natural reaction though. It's there but it has to be 'trained'.
Did you know babys aren't by default disgusted by excrements? They'll even freaking taste it out of curiosity.
And bugs... =P it has been found out that people who are afraid of spiders have parents who also are afraid of spiders.
So if a baby sees a spider, tries to touch it and mommy goes all 'aaaaaaah', it'll connect spiders to something negative and will probably be disgusted/scared by them later.
On the contrary some tribes eat spiders and the chinese eat all possible and impossible kinds of bugs so being disgusted by them is totally trained.
But anyway, since socializing most definitely is 'natural' for humans, maybe society itself is 'natural', thus being disgusted by sex would be 'natural'.
It's all on pretty shaky legs with words extremely open for interpretation.
However we see ms morgana clearly viewing society as something 'unnatural' in panel 1 of the new page, so...
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I didn't say 'disgust' wasn't a natural reaction though. It's there but it has to be 'trained'.
Did you know babys aren't by default disgusted by excrements? They'll even freaking taste it out of curiosity.
But where does the training come from? Parents? Where'd they get it from? Grandparents? The chain can't go on forever.
Even if it's trained, people wouldn't follow it if they weren't naturally inclined to do so. Some people aren't so inclined, so they rebel against what they've been taught.
And bugs... =P it's has been found out that people who are afraid of spiders have parents who also are afraid of spiders.
So if a baby sees a spider, tries to touch it and mommy goes all 'aaaaaaah', it'll connect spiders to something negative and will probably be disgusted/scared by them later.
I highly doubt that is universal or even widespread. How do you account for all the people disgusted by things that their parents are okay with?
Also some tribes eat spiders and the chinese eat all possible and impossible kinds of bugs so being disgusted by them is trained.
Or maybe some tribes guys was desperate, had to eat some disgusting bugs because there was nothing else, realized it wasn't that bad, and so started feeding to their kids. In that case, not being disgusted by them is trained. There's really no way to know.
But anyway, since socializing most definitely is 'natural' for humans, maybe society itself is 'natural', thus being disgusted by sex would be 'natural'.
It's all on pretty shaky legs with words extremely open for interpretation.
However we see ms morgana clearly viewing society as something 'unnatural' in panel 1 of the new page, so...
No, she's just disagreeing with May that society is the only thing influencing people on this matter.
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My point is that I doubt that being disgusted by something as natural as sex is a 'natural' reaction at all.
I didn't say 'disgust' wasn't a natural reaction though.
You pretty much did.
No. There's a fine difference imo.
Disgust itself is a natural reaction. It's an emotion.
In the same post, however, I said that 'disgust' can be trained.
If it's trained, it's not there by default and thus not natural, agreed?
If children would be confronted with sex from the beginning without their parents or anyone else in their surroundings showing any sign of shame whatsoever, they would not be disgusted by sex.
Although, to complete the circle, you could say 'society' would be responsible for that again but you get my point?
This is why I think that point is silly. There's almost nothing truly 'natural' about us anymore if you distinct between 'society' and 'nature' and her whole point is based on differing between those.
I highly doubt that is universal or even widespread. How do you account for all the people disgusted by things that their parents are okay with?
Bad experience.
But where does the training come from? Parents? Where'd they get it from? Grandparents? The chain can't go on forever.
Even if it's trained, people wouldn't follow it if they weren't naturally inclined to do so. Some people aren't so inclined, so they rebel against what they've been taught.
Experience.
People got bitten by a spider, it hurt or they even saw someone die from it, they'll be scared of them.
Then they'll 'teach' their children to be scared of them etc.
Or maybe some tribes guys was desperate, had to eat some disgusting bugs because there was nothing else, realized it wasn't that bad, and so started feeding to their kids. In that case, not being disgusted by them is trained. There's really no way to know.
We're omnivores so it is never truly 'unnatural' for us to eat anything now, is it?
We can literally eat everything.
No, she's just disagreeing with May that society is the only thing influencing people on this matter.
She clearly differs between 'nature' and 'society'.
If society was ='natural' to her, what exactly would her point be anyway?
I think a good question would be, what is 'natural'?
Edit: Cleaned the quote clusterf*ck up and addressed the rest of your points.
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Maytag's definitely just playing along in this scene.
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-snip-
Fair enough.
We're omnivores so it is never truly 'unnatural' for us to eat anything now, is it?
We can literally eat everything.
Rocks? :P
I think a good question would be, what is 'natural'?
Beats me. D&D-style druids say "nature" is trees and ducks and stuff. "Unnatural" is humans building houses and cities.
Of course, birds building nest is "natural".
So, it seems like "natural" is not man-made, "unnatural" is man-made, regardless of whether or not it is in the nature of man to do things like build houses and found cities and make machines.
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Here's how I see it:
I'd say most attitudes about sex are probably due first to natural selection, and then upon the development of civilization, what could be called societal selection. Unfortunately, evolution and society have tremendous conflict over sex.
Sex is intrinsically associated both with base biological urges (relevant mainly to evolution) AND upper psychological needs (relevant mainly to society).
Also, due to the complexity of society and education, in the US, people aren't considered fully adults until they are 21-22 (alcohol access, completion of college). However, puberty is 9-17 for Girls, 10-19 for Boys. In short, we've reached the point that society's standards for adulthood have completely out-stripped biological adulthood.
End result is sex ends up being stuck in a giant tug of war. Society demands that it have consent, evolution demands that it be productive, society demands that it be used only in committed relationships (good for stability), while evolution demands that it be done whenever possible (good for spreading genes).
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Well, yeah, electricity and stuff. I'm not as up and up on exactly how the nervous system works as I should.
But the point is do you really control your thoughts?
Maybe you are thinking about something. Maybe you have an image in your head. You know the type. You probably saw it on the internet.
But you are thinking about it, because you saw it, and the image is in your mind's eye. You want to remove it, so you concentrate, and get it off your mind.
You did this out of your willpower, but you would not have done it had you not had the impulse to do so.
Or if you decide to not have a dozen donuts for breakfast? You do so because your have an impulse to take care of your health. Your action is your "choice", but your reason for it is not. You didn't "decide" to value your health, you just did.
So which is it? Did you choose to follow your desire for health? Or was that drive merely stronger than your gluttony?
?
Seems like you've had a revelation about something! The questions you're asking are part of the whole "do we have free will" debate, which is pretty cool. The end result of this argument usually ends up like this: "Ok, so free will is probably an illusion. But the illusion is impossible to tell from reality, so it may as well be reality." So basically, while we may not have free will in the true sense, what we have is close enough.
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Correct. Free will doesn't exist from a physical standpoint, for the world is either quantum randomness or mathematically predictably at heart. But for the purposes of conducting society and life, its far more practical to act as if it did.
So yes, Sociology is powered by Psychology is powered by Biology is powered by Chemistry is powered by Physics is powered by Math, but you still hold people accountable for their decisions, even though they inherently couldn't have chosen anything else.
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Seems like you've had a revelation about something! The questions you're asking are part of the whole "do we have free will" debate, which is pretty cool. The end result of this argument usually ends up like this: "Ok, so free will is probably an illusion. But the illusion is impossible to tell from reality, so it may as well be reality." So basically, while we may not have free will in the true sense, what we have is close enough.
Well, it's long been my belief on fate/free will. It's possible to reduce the concept down to the point where it becomes meaningless. Most fatalists would say, "what will happen will happen and you can't influence it", though if you say, "yes, you can influence it", but what if you were fated to influence it? And so on and so forth around in a circle.
but you still hold people accountable for their decisions, even though they inherently couldn't have chosen anything else.
Of course, it could always be argued that one doesn't have a choice on whether or not to hold people accountable for their actions.
Works both ways!
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We're omnivores so it is never truly 'unnatural' for us to eat anything now, is it?
We can literally eat everything.
Rocks? :P
Do grinded ones count? (http://news.softpedia.com/news/Eat-Sand-to-Stay-Fit-and-Preserve-Your-Health-37135.shtml) :-X
Beats me. D&D-style druids say "nature" is trees and ducks and stuff. "Unnatural" is humans building houses and cities.
So almost everything that defines humans is unnatural?
Is there no way for an animal to be 'unnatural' whatsoever?
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Well, it's long been my belief on fate/free will. It's possible to reduce the concept down to the point where it becomes meaningless. Most fatalists would say, "what will happen will happen and you can't influence it", though if you say, "yes, you can influence it", but what if you were fated to influence it? And so on and so forth around in a circle.
I honestly don't think anyone believes in fate anymore. It's passe.
Of course, it could always be argued that one doesn't have a choice on whether or not to hold people accountable for their actions.
Works both ways!
Yeah, we kind of get that. I think you're missing the part where we say it's just more practical to act as if people have free will, even if they don't. The illusion of free will is just as good as the real thing. Sure, when you decide whether to go to Taco Bell or Dairy Queen, this decision is based on all the motivations in your brain which you have no control over, so maybe it wasn't really a choice, but as far as you're concerned it feels like a choice, right? So if you look at it another way, maybe the ability to just go along with your brain and go get some delicious Taco Bell is a good enough "choice." At some point you just have to live your life and stop worrying about all this stuff.
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At some point you just have to live your life and stop worrying about all this stuff.
Damn right.
After all you're all just products of MY mind.
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Do grinded ones count? (http://news.softpedia.com/news/Eat-Sand-to-Stay-Fit-and-Preserve-Your-Health-37135.shtml) :-X
Grinding your rocks to make them more manageable is unnatural.
I honestly don't think anyone believes in fate anymore. It's passe.
Hey, some people still believe in flat earth. ;)
Yeah, we kind of get that. I think you're missing the part where we say it's just more practical to act as if people have free will, even if they don't. The illusion of free will is just as good as the real thing. Sure, when you decide whether to go to Taco Bell or Dairy Queen, this decision is based on all the motivations in your brain which you have no control over, so maybe it wasn't really a choice, but as far as you're concerned it feels like a choice, right? So if you look at it another way, maybe the ability to just go along with your brain and go get some delicious Taco Bell is a good enough "choice." At some point you just have to live your life and stop worrying about all this stuff.
Yeah.
I probably shouldn't have brought it up, since it is pretty pointless.
Who cares why something makes you happy as long as something makes you happy?
After all you're all just products of MY mind.
I'm more of a quotient, really. Because I'm all about division.
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Yeah.
I probably shouldn't have brought it up, since it is pretty pointless.
Who cares why something makes you happy as long as something makes you happy?
That's cool, if you want to talk about it more, bring it up in the debate section. Although I guess we've pretty much said what there is to say, right?
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Do grinded ones count? (http://news.softpedia.com/news/Eat-Sand-to-Stay-Fit-and-Preserve-Your-Health-37135.shtml) :-X
Grinding your rocks to make them more manageable is unnatural.
Hmm so is using tools unnatural then? Some apes use sticks as tools.
Do they act unnatural if they do it?
Does this topic actually lead anywhere?
We will never know.
Hm why hasn't any of those super ultra high level sorcerers grown may a new arm by the way?
Or will she stay one armed for the rest of her life now?
Cause that would mean things like wounds would actually matter.
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Yeah.
I probably shouldn't have brought it up, since it is pretty pointless.
Who cares why something makes you happy as long as something makes you happy?
That's cool, if you want to talk about it more, bring it up in the debate section. Although I guess we've pretty much said what there is to say, right?
[/quote]
Yeah. I only brought it followed up on our whole natural/unnatural discussion.
Generally I wouldn't spoil a good discussion about a comic with serious debate stuff, but dammit, you have a scene that's more than boobs and wizards and swords and stuff, it's gonna come up. :P
Hmm so is using tools unnatural then? Some apes use sticks as tools.
Do they act unnatural if they do it?
Does this topic actually lead anywhere?
We will never know.
Hm why hasn't any of those super ultra high level sorcerers grown may a new arm by the way?
Or will she stay one armed for the rest of her life now?
They probably haven't had time.
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I honestly don't think anyone believes in fate anymore. It's passe.
Fate is basically anthropomorphizing the lack of free will. Free will may be lacked, but that doesn't make fate useful conceptually.
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In the same post, however, I said that 'disgust' can be trained.
If it's trained, it's not there by default and thus not natural, agreed?
If children would be confronted with sex from the beginning without their parents or anyone else in their surroundings showing any sign of shame whatsoever, they would not be disgusted by sex.
I think you might muddle up "sex" with "sticking something big in" here.
Children play "doctor" from early on, and they happily explore their own bodies. But the thought of "I came from there" (that stretches that far) and "they stick that big thing in" could be something completely different - though I'm not sure about that.
Sex isn't just the penetration part (Maytag will know that :) ), and I think that if you break it down to the things people actually do (kissing, caressing, ...) most people will have some point from which on they find it disgusting. But since that point is different for people depending on the society they come from (one country can have many societies living side by side) that's clearly where morals come in.
I can imagine that "I bleed down there" and "why does that thing have to stand erect right now, when I'm in front of class and everyone is watching" can create a good deal of additional shame for ones own body (which then gets projected onto others), but that's completely different from a "natural reaction to sex".
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Screw fate, go Destiny all the way.
hmmm, I wonder if Maytag is about to come back with a response or if she's just going to let it fall and watch poor Morgana sit there puzzled at the lack of an argument *lol*
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To me it seems like May is at it again, making friends of her enemies.
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Nah May is luring her into a false sense of security before producing a throwing knife from her D bag.
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You know if we still had the old, cool may this would definitely lead to hot lesbian sex but noooo...
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To me it seems like May is at it again, making friends of her enemies.
I was thinking the same thing. I'm assuming these people want Maytag on their side if they really want her to enter "Dark Cell," so I don't think Fata would purposefully try to make an enemy of Maytag.
Although, I've always been curious to see what would happen if someone just refused to be anything but Maytag's enemy, especially in light of what it says about May in the notebook section (she's *not* the sort of person you want to have as an enemy, although surprisingly she has very few enemies). Eventually, everyone has come around, even Moss.
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hmmm, it makes me wonder...
We haven't seen Melter or had anything to confirm that these people are responsible for Bloody Mary, but if they are, I wonder if she was another candidate for Dark Cell rather than a mere experiment. Could be that she was someone they tested, who made it that far in the process and was "transformed" to enter Dark Cell, but ended up being a failure. But I doubt it.
Morgana doesn't seem to be so much as trying to recruit Maytag as she is still testing her suitability for the task at hand. It all seems to be related to people managing to control their emotions and the body's chemical signals. Whatever the case, she's obviously not a candidate herself, else they wouldn't be bothering, so I'm waiting for Maytag to either pass or to turn it around and take control of Morgana's emotions.
Actually, I'm still not exactly certain of what Maytag's goals might be. She's knows she's been tested for her supposed weakness and that Moss is probably involved with the group. They apparently need her for something called Dark Cell which she may already know something about from rumor (as she tends to) which gives her a leverage since they need something she from her. But she also knows they're holding her in a room with bars on the window and probably Bern somewhere. I'm half guessing that her strategy will either be to pass their test so she's useful to them, and thus has some leverage, or she's going to try and befriend them so even if she does fail, they'll still be uninclined to find her as a problem and possibly more of an ally.
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Now, this was a bit of an unforeseen turn of events. But good that May is not that easily confused. :-*
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lol, this Fata lady is ridiculous. Props to May for showing so much patience. I'd be rolling my eyes right now.
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Bored of sex, huh?
I didn't know there was internet in the flipside world.
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The magus are all tapping into the wired. That explains so much. Phalanx.gov is getting haxxed all over the place. :P
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hmmmm,
Could be another tactic as well. She's tried the direct seduction. Then she's tried to provoke her with opinions. Now she's coming across as someone unable to see the joy in sex or express much interest in it.
We know Maytag sometimes likes to start little projects on people. Regina's shy love for Lucient and Crest's loss of composure around women. Come across as someone who needs assistance and you could spark Maytag's interest in turning you into her next project and maybe get some pitty sex *LOL*
*meh*, Or part of Fata's disinterest is just something to do with the lack of anything below the waist ;P
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Non chapter related, but let's have a round to celebrate. Flipside's #3 on Top Web Comics!
And I just noticed today Fata has a nice rack.
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C'mon Fata, how can sex be boring for a girl like you?
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Well, what if she's never had good sex? Then she might find it boring, maybe? (Aah I really wouldn't know, actually. I'm still a virgin. XD)
I wonder why she's going into this lengthy discussion about how sex is disgusting, though.
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Hahaha, the folks in the Bed and Breakfast are like some kind of magic League of Evil- they've got the guy who can see weaknesses, a chick who can become anything she wants, and somebody who's good at making portals that confuse two teenagers for like five minutes.
Oh and those twins whose special ability so far is, uh, looking hot. Hell yeah.
And I want to draw Miss Morgana, I love her design! Ever since that intermission she showed up in.
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She might just plain be asexual, too.
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Whatever. I find this conversation boring. Mostly because I don't understand how we are expected to trust anything this character says, given her huge amount of deceit in previous strips. It's probably another tactic to confuse or unbalance Maytag, and even if it isn't there's no reason why I should give two shits about what she thinks or feels, as she hasn't done anything to gain my sympathy or interest. Just another asshole sycophant of Danzig. Seeing as how casual he is about mental torture and kidnapping, anyone who works for him isn't going to earn my sympathy just because she is bored with sex. ::) http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FreudianExcuse
It's a trap, Maytag! Gut her, find the others, and get the fuck out of here!
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@RoninAngel: I agree it's another tactic. I think she's tried to seduce Maytag, she's tried to get her argumentative about sex and now she's playing for sympathy which could work if you consider how Maytag reacted to Regina and Crest's problems with relationships, etc.
But our Maytag isn't so easily fooled and is probably a far greater manipulator than Fata could hope to be, despite all the advantages of being able to work of the memories she scanned from Maytag and manipulate the environment around her by will.
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Maytag could make her enjoy sex
...if she was the old, cool maytag.
But noo, no more lesbian sex.
...just saying.
...
DON'T LOOK AT ME!
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Maytag could make her enjoy sex
...if she was the old, cool maytag.
But noo, no more lesbian sex.
...just saying.
...
DON'T LOOK AT ME!
There can still be lesbian sex... with Bern. ;)
Also, I'm not really sure Fata can have sex in her true form... she seems to be lacking anything below the waist. :-\
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Nevermind, guess Fata's had plenty of sex if what she says is true. =P
Glad to see May getting serious, essentially saying, "enough of this crap, where are my friends?"
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And spontaneously ripping off her clothing.
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Does that mean it's back to shy May?
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How can she rip illusion clothing off?
Or is the ripping off itself an illusion?
Will we see an illusion sex scene in the next page, disgustified by fata to get her point of sex being disgusting across?
Will may then experience sex as disgusting herself which would be in contrast to the character we know up until now?
Hmm, clairens tattoos affected men only, mary was betrayed by her boyfriend and fata just flat out hates sex.
...
...nope, makes no sense considering the motive of the thin man so far.
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Does that mean it's back to shy May?
Maybe she'll leave her hat on.
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So the next page will be May in bed next to Fata, naked with but her hat on, smoking a cigarette.
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or May holding Fata up against a wall with a knife at her throat?
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We still have no confirmation that these people really do work for or with the Thin Man or have anything to do with Bloody Mary. We haven't seen Melter so... *shrug*
Hard to say what Maytag is up to. She may have been testing the illusion by ripping the clothing given to her, or maybe she stood up too close to the table and it caught on that rather than her grabbing it with her arm and removing it. But could easily be that she's about to get changed into her real costume or another set of clothes.
Hell, maybe she's figured out something about Fata and/or her missing waist and she's about to do something that either destroys her argument or gets her excited again *shrug*. Maybe the act of getting changed will excite her, or the notion that she's found a woman she can't "have".
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Maytag could make her enjoy sex
...if she was the old, cool maytag.
But noo, no more lesbian sex.
...just saying.
...
DON'T LOOK AT ME!
I actually think Maytag is more interesting now as a character that she's struggling with her urges rather than following them willy nilly. While it may have been "cool" it certainly wasn't healthy and whatever happiness she she may have derived from it didn't seem to last very long. I like the new May who loves Bern with all her heart much better than the philanderer May.
As for the lastest bodice-ripping page... maybe she's trying to seduce Morgana somehow to further her goals/manipulate her into helping May/Something amazing we haven't thought of yet?
(There is something so familiar about her eyes.... I feel like I've seen them before, but not in anything Brion's drawn. GOD HOW AM I TURNED ON BY EYES ALONE?!)
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Mm...my mistake, she's done it all. No wonder she's bored, she's run out of things to do!
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Seeing this latest page, well I doubt May would now rip her clothes on purpose, it rather may be a sign that Fata's illusion is weakening when she has no control over individual, and from end of their conversation it seems that Fata lost to May.
I wonder if Fata's next move will be telling May her friends and Bern are dead giving her shock therapy with some nasty illusion to break her down if sex and talk didn't work.
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Mm...my mistake, she's done it all. No wonder she's bored, she's run out of things to do!
But has she bungee jumped nekkie yet? or the Three Tops Challenge? huh has she?
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lol, this Fata lady is ridiculous. Props to May for showing so much patience. I'd be rolling my eyes right now.
I so agree, I also probably would have rolled my eyes by now...
We know Maytag sometimes likes to start little projects on people. Regina's shy love for Lucient and Crest's loss of composure around women. Come across as someone who needs assistance and you could spark Maytag's interest in turning you into her next project and maybe get some pitty sex *LOL*
Pitty sex form Maytag? Nope, more of the lines of pitty eyes rolling, I say... :D
C'mon Fata, how can sex be boring for a girl like you?
Do you really take all what Fata Morgana says as face value?
Honestly, just remember her NAME!
@RoninAngel: I also agree on the "it's another tactic" idea...
We still have no confirmation that these people really do work for or with the Thin Man or have anything to do with Bloody Mary. We haven't seen Melter so... *shrug*
Well, to me, the new guys are a threat as well, and not a minor one, for now it's not a main issue if they are with the thin man...
Hard to say what Maytag is up to. She may have been testing the illusion by ripping the clothing given to her, or maybe she stood up too close to the table and it caught on that rather than her grabbing it with her arm and removing it. But could easily be that she's about to get changed into her real costume or another set of clothes.
I think Fata for now is really genuine surprised, so I say it's Mai's doing, not Fata's. Be it on purpose or now, we hopefully see soon.
Hell, maybe she's figured out something about Fata and/or her missing waist and she's about to do something that either destroys her argument or gets her excited again *shrug*. Maybe the act of getting changed will excite her, or the notion that she's found a woman she can't "have".
Oh the possibilities. :D
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For some reason I wnated to say at the end in a very bad 1940's film german accent "Ve hav vays of making you talk".
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Speaking on the subject of Fata's true form, I'm pretty sure she had legs when we first saw her.
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Mm...my mistake, she's done it all. No wonder she's bored, she's run out of things to do!
But has she bungee jumped nekkie yet? or the Three Tops Challenge? huh has she?
Maybe she has! :o She did say she has...*ahem* "tried every sex act". This could pertain to mid-air intercourse while tied to a bungee cord :o
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For some reason I wnated to say at the end in a very bad 1940's film german accent "Ve hav vays of making you talk".
I know have the mental image of inserting that into any appropriate or inappropriate move / anime / cartoon / discussion, in a Pythonesque way. ;D ;D :-*
"I am done with you for now, Maytag" and the "locked in separate cells" gives me the mental Image I had from the very beginnings of all the inhabitants of that castle...
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"I shall only give name, rank and why the chicken crossed the road" ;D
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Continuity Alert
Page 20 of Ch. 23 has MayTag with her complete left arm. I know you love that arm with all your might Brion, but it has to go. :(
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I dunno, I've been thinking at some point during this ordeal they'll magic back on an arm for her.
Also, is that Melter? Must avoid making a FrankenMay!
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Arm is fixed now.
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There is that voice again "Cooler two veeks!" now I want to watch The Great Escape.
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Well, it's certainly looking like they all work with the Thin Man, now that Melter appears.
Of course, we still don't know who the Thin Man is, or if it's a cover for a group. Danzig's comment that Crest had heard of him suggests that there really is a guy and that it's not Danzig, yet Fata's comment, as a Regina illusion, suggests Danzig does seem to be somewhat in charge or one of the main "researchers" into whatever they're investigating.
Whatever the case, these bastards certainly seem to be the ones responsible for turning Mary into Bloody Mary so it'll be interesting to see how we're supposed to feel any sympathy for them (although I still get the sense that they're all cursed). Heck, maybe Mary joined them willingly then had the memory of it removed, but I doubt it considering they planted her back in her own home to kill her parents.
I'm trying to work out how Fata left the room. I've never seen a spell for teleportation before (only those portals) and her presence seems to be required for her illusions to continue their existence, so if she was just creating an illusion of herself I'd have expected her to be outside, but no sign... And where the hell is Maytag anyway?
Oh the possibilities for Maytag. It's hard to say if she still has her D-Bag but I'm guessing they wouldn't leave her with such an arsenal. There's probabl some way to remove it and I'd say they've also removed Suspira's. Heck, they've read Maytag's mind, so they'd know she has one.
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"FrankenMay" *shivers at mental image*
I'm trying to work out how Fata left the room. I've never seen a spell for teleportation before (only those portals) and her presence seems to be required for her illusions to continue their existence, so if she was just creating an illusion of herself I'd have expected her to be outside, but no sign... And where the hell is Maytag anyway?
The last panel of Ch 23 P 20 seems like Fata is able to "melt" through doors and walls, if that's her...
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"FrankenMay" *shivers at mental image*
I'm trying to work out how Fata left the room. I've never seen a spell for teleportation before (only those portals) and her presence seems to be required for her illusions to continue their existence, so if she was just creating an illusion of herself I'd have expected her to be outside, but no sign... And where the hell is Maytag anyway?
The last panel of Ch 23 P 20 seems like Fata is able to "melt" through doors and walls, if that's her...
Nah, thats someone else called MELTER (http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=675)
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Damn I remember that guy right when I saw him... :o
This...is not good...not good :(
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Nah, thats someone else called MELTER (http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=675)
Oh, so then they are connected with the thin man... :-\ :o
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We're not entirely certain but it certainly looks like they all work for this "Thin Man" that one of them is the "Thin Man" or that the group hides behind the belief of a single culprit called the "Thin Man".
Danzig commented about how Crest had heard of the Thin man, but didn't confirm that he was working for him. Qtalda and Kin seemed to believe that Mary's transformation was the work of the "Thin Man" and Melter certainly appears to claim responsibility, however we're still not exactly certain if this "Thin Man" character is really related to all this, or if this group just seem to be coppying his M.O.
I think they probably are the "Thin Man" or one of them is him specifically but *shrug*. All up it seems to be a bunch of sorcerers who also carry some sort of curse or another.
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This is starting to look not so pretty...
So Suspiria will be the first to be experimented with, then maybe Bern and May...
I really wonder how they can escape this threat now, since all of them are locked up, Bern and May rather nude without any possible weapons.
Well maybe Moss will help them, or even better Bloody Mary would show up to bring vengeance upon her creator saving May with others at the same time but at the cost of her life, that would be epic.
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So, where is Glyph? We haven't seen him, since he went for his sandwiches.
Shurle these thin guys haven't forgotten about him. If so, he could stage a air vent escape, or something. He's part of the Phalanx, so shurely he has some training for situations like this one.
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He says "..." but we all know he's thinking "Fuck you, Danzig".
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I would bet that Glyph is working with them. It's too much of a coincidence that the B&B they stay at for the night just happens to hold a bunch of people working for/related to the Thin Man.
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You've also drawn seraph that weird way and I thought you were over it by now but I have to say, melters shoulders are waay too narrow.
Unless that kid has no arms, it just doesn't compute how someone (even if he's supposed to be a kid) can have a torso almost as thin as the freaking head!
Also whenever someone looks straight forward, their eyes are crossed.
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You've also drawn seraph that weird way and I thought you were over it by now but I have to say, melters shoulders are waay too narrow.
Unless that kid has no arms, it just doesn't compute how someone (even if he's supposed to be a kid) can have a torso almost as thin as the freaking head!
Also whenever someone looks straight forward, their eyes are crossed.
hmm, I guess it's possible he has something other than arms. We've certainly never seen his arms and I can't imagine that if he did have arms that they'd be easy to bring out from under a coat such as his. Might have something to do what that move he pulled on Mary HERE (http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=682)
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Nah I guess he just has his arms hanging down all the time kinda like in the bottom of this (http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic/book0/fs11pg08.html).
Which is pretty awkward.
You don't always have your arms just hanging down, do you? Especially not when talking.
Additionally, since the character is a kid, his head is even larger than seraphs.
Seraphs shoulders were pretty damn narrow already (jeez even my upper body is 3 times as wide as my head and I'm not exactly arnold schwarzenegger) but that kid is just over the top.
It just looks unnatural. I mean just look at the bottom right (http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php) panel. Head on a stick.
And I guess what he pulled on mary was some hardcore magic.
He's the main villains right hand after all, he's supposed to be hardcore, right?
Hardcore to the max.
Well maybe he actually is a squid with a human head or something so that look would make sense.
We don't know anything about him after all.
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Oh no...is Melter the Thin Man? (He wears such a big coat, we don't know if he is thin or not.)
Poor Suspi.
I'm loving the incentives this month. That girl is hot, too! Looks like we've got a new dame coming up.
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I'm not sure, but I believe this Melter guy is a double-agent, spying the Thin Man for Danzig. Maybe a high rank in this "Black Cell" thing.
What? I was always here...
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Goddamnit brion!
You and your ninja-intermissions.
I believe it'd be an awesome christmas present for bern to know WHAT HAPPENS NEXT so cut it out and go back to the story!
Argh!
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I guess we'll just have to Donate to get things rolling, huh? ;)
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"FrankenMay" *shivers at mental image*
I'm trying to work out how Fata left the room. I've never seen a spell for teleportation before (only those portals) and her presence seems to be required for her illusions to continue their existence, so if she was just creating an illusion of herself I'd have expected her to be outside, but no sign... And where the hell is Maytag anyway?
The last panel of Ch 23 P 20 seems like Fata is able to "melt" through doors and walls, if that's her...
Nah, thats someone else called MELTER (http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=675)
Oh. Hurr. That might be WHY his name is Melter. ...I don't recall him ever doing any other kind of melting.
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"FrankenMay" *shivers at mental image*
I'm trying to work out how Fata left the room. I've never seen a spell for teleportation before (only those portals) and her presence seems to be required for her illusions to continue their existence, so if she was just creating an illusion of herself I'd have expected her to be outside, but no sign... And where the hell is Maytag anyway?
The last panel of Ch 23 P 20 seems like Fata is able to "melt" through doors and walls, if that's her...
Nah, thats someone else called MELTER (http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=675)
Oh. Hurr. That might be WHY his name is Melter. ...I don't recall him ever doing any other kind of melting.
OH. Ha ha, didn't even notice that.
Hm, going through the archives I realize he can't be the Thin Man. He's another experiment: http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=682
Though I thought he just liked to use women.
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Maybe he's a she?
I mean he talked about change and all that...
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I just noticed that in page 22 Maytag said she has a Christmas "dilemna". It's supposed to be spelled "dilemma". ;)
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I think for Christmas Crest should get a romantic date with a girl for Christmas, the guys always alone, I think it would be cute, if not that he should get a nice portrait framed picture of a beautiful girl, maybe famous and she signs it with a lipstick printed kiss. *giggles*
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Woot! Glad you're feeling better, Brion. :)
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Better get a new page up soon Brion...............think the forumites are getting restless :'(
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Yucky, Yucky YUCKY!
:( :o :( :o
I forgot with all the Christmas specials just how horrible a turn the plot had taken. I don't know if I could handle it if Suspira was turned into a mutated cannibal or something. Let's get back to the cute strips where Maytag flirts with Crest and gets him into wacky adventures. In fact, Maytag/Bern shipping would be preferable to this.
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BRION! Glad you're feeling better mate.
AND THERE IS A NEW PAGE PEOPLE! (http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=926)
Damn! Suspira's even missing that pattern on her leg. Must have been some sort of asphyxia like enchantment but maybe not as permanent as Clairen's was.
Certainly seems to be on her bare skin back HERE (http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=551) But then we didn't see it at all while her and Kin were fighting Bloody Mary in her underware. Yeah, it's probably a less permanent form or something. I was thinking that maybe they'd removed it.
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That said it is really really nice to have a new (AND IN CANON!!!) strip finally. :D
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Nice to see Brion is ok.
Also I hope Suspi will be ok too, damn where are those powerfull Conclave mages when you need them?
We need Bandage Face to save the day.
Brrr I'm rather afraid of next strips...
It reminds me of vivisection scene.
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The conclave probably doesn't exist.
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We need Bandage Face to save the day.
*shakes head* Poor Qtalda is never going to loose that nickname I gave her *LOL*
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Who cares.
She's a bitch! BURN HER! >:(
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No you have to go through all the tests first like you have to see if she floats and weighs the same as a duck etc
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Well, Melter's definitely surprised at SOMETHING while "examining" Suspira. You think they know each other?
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Good to know you're better, Brion...
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Well, Melter's definitely surprised at SOMETHING while "examining" Suspira. You think they know each other?
I think he's just checking out a hot girl in her skivvies. :P
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That yucky dude?
No way.
You see, guys like that are always more machine now (or applicable fantasy substitute thereof) then man. :-\
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Well, Melter's definitely surprised at SOMETHING while "examining" Suspira. You think they know each other?
I think he's just checking out a hot girl in her skivvies. :P
Or maybe he's wondering what happened to that leg marking.
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Maybe now Moss will shed some light on this situation for us.
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Still have a way with people, eh Moss?
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Or is it?
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hmmm, thats true. More illusions are possible but I think they've given up on trying to fool her on people she knows as she'd probably see right through it again.
Still a wonder if Moss is here to help her or torment her considering he passed on the information about her weakness. They've read her memory so you'd think they know about him but again, they may only have read enough to set her up for the tests. If we presume it's too long or overwhelming to read a person's entire memory then there's a good chance they aren't aware that Moss and Maytag know each other.
At least he might let her know how the others are faring.
hmmm, I didn't realise there was a large, barred opening next to the bed last time. I thought it was just part of the illusion but there was obviously some reality to it.
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Here's a thought. They know that using deception has failed on May what if they have "changed" Moss in some way and made him more extrovert?
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Perhaps this moss fellow will shed some information on what these creepy dudes actually want. They've been really tight lipped about it so far.
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Well... Danzig did say they wanted to recruit them more than experiment on them *shrug*
But yes, it's still been quite vague thus far and all we can gather from these tests is that they're part of some "proper procedure" that they may well follow with anyone they take in.
It's possible that those who don't pass some sort of initial tests just have their memory erased and are sent on their way.
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It's possible that those who don't pass some sort of initial tests just have their memory erased and are sent on their way.
According to Shepard, memory erasing is not safe. Tho this might not always be a good idea to use on someone you don't want to hurt.
On the other hand of course, "Thin Man Technologies" could be more advanced.
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Very true. If we presume Shepard didn't work for the Thin Man then we can presume the Thin Man is much better at memory erasure as evidenced by Bloody Mary. But Shepard just did a quick memory wipe. He may be capable of a more refined one in better conditions with a little more time and commitment.
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Let me be a reminder to you all that these folks are villains.
Brutal, violent, amoral, monsters if what they did to Bloody Mary is any indicator.
If someone failed their "tests," it's pretty obvious what method of "memory erasure" they'd use; it starts with an "M"
and rhymes with "burder". :-\
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From Fata's reaction before, my guess is that they don't know May and Moss know each other. Or at least they don't know to what extent. Maybe Moss was the one to read their memories, and reported what he wanted to.
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Gotta love Moss.
"'Sup slut."
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@Akashayi: That makes sense, but then again, Fata Morgana would need a complete picture of the people and know their voices through and through... But if they can be read I'm sure they can be transferred.
@Ronin: We know that Melter was responsible for Bloody Mary... It could be that Danzig's crew are unaware of that side of his work. But yes, they could easily be passing everyone onto him with the belief that he's erasing their memory and returning them when he's really using them for experiments (Remember Qtalda's comment that there could be hundreds of failed attempts before Bloody Mary?)
But then Clairen is another example of someone who's actually gone to the Thin Man, had the experiments and simple had her memory of the event erased if her interview is anything to go on.
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From Fata's reaction before, my guess is that they don't know May and Moss know each other. Or at least they don't know to what extent. Maybe Moss was the one to read their memories, and reported what he wanted to.
I find it odd that she didn't know Moss but knew Regina and Umber. Maybe she could only read those May lusted after?
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From Fata's reaction before, my guess is that they don't know May and Moss know each other. Or at least they don't know to what extent. Maybe Moss was the one to read their memories, and reported what he wanted to.
I find it odd that she didn't know Moss but knew Regina and Umber. Maybe she could only read those May lusted after?
Hm, that would be interesting.
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Oh snap. Moss is totally going to proposition May for sex again. :P
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His uncle!?!?!?!?
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His uncle!?!?!?!?
Totally called it. ./pose ;P
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Oh snap. Moss is totally going to proposition May for sex again. :P
hmmm, I think you're right. Despite any friendship Moss enjoys torturing and tormenting people. He may be aware of her promise to Bern and enjoy the thought of that torturous decision... Then again, this could just be more tests on her "weakness" and he has no intention to help her.
Glad once again that you're feeling better Brion.
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Hmmm... The plot thickens.
That's good. Good riddance.
I really don't care what happens as long as they all get out of this creepy castle. I am sick to death of Danzig and his creepy asshole friends and their creepy asshole "Tests". Everything they have said is a lie, and or perpusely concocted with the intent to manipulate and confuse. I know the introduction of this evil team is a major plot point but I can't wait to get to a part in the story where things make sense and everything an NPC says isn't part of some cannibalization / experimentation / enslavement conspiracy.
And worse, this place is supposed to be a "bed and breakfast" right? Where the fuck is their continental breakfast?!?! >:(
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Good point, Ronin. And yeah, Moss is quite the pervy scumball. Don't do it, Maytag!
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I don't think you want to know the answer to that, Ronin...
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Just realised I think I'm getting the characters mixed up :-\ think I'll go sit in a dark corner.
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Didn't May save his life before?
Still it seems to go for sex proposition again, well maybe he will torture her for a while with it and seeing May strong resolve not to do it, he will help her for old times, if he has any good in himself, and if he doesn't like his uncle or that evil shortie.
Or again it's just a test, after all Moss will tell May there's Bern life on the line, that they don't need her and she can be killed and will put even bigger pressure on May.
I'm still quite annoyed we don't see Bern at all from time May wake up :(
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Argh, who the hell is danzig again?
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Argh, who the hell is danzig again?
Danzig is the Frank N Further of this B&B house.
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Maytag's getting pretty upset about Moss's condition for helping her. I wonder if she's starting to feel some stress over this whole ordeal. Even if Moss isn't purposefully testing Maytag at this point and is truly looking for sexual gratification, after what happened in the tub and with Fata, this has got to not only testing her "weakness" but also increasing her concern over Bern and the others' wellbeing.
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Aw man, and here I was still hoping May and Moss would go to a bar and check out people's weaknesses.
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Wow, Maytag turns into a One-Woman-Woman and suddenly all the badguys wanna get with her. I wonder if having sex with May has something to do with what they're doing, or if they're just trying to break her by exploiting her weakness. Moss isn't incapable of cruelty, I could see him being a total jerk about this and just making her feel awful if she doesn't agree. Even if May did save his life, that doesn't necessarily stop someone from being an ass.
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hmmm, well now Moss is aware of the relationship between Bern and May. He saw Bern's weakness was her homosexuality before but that might not be the case anymore now that Bern's come out of the closet.
Still... If Moss sticks to his guns, I wonder what Maytag will do. She's been threatened with rape before and figured it no big deal to get boned instead of tortured or killed. Heck, she's been willing to cut off her own breasts to diffuse a situation before and save Bern so having sex with someone to save her is no big deal except for the promise shes now made... But then we've also seen that Maytag doesn't regard a promise as a guarantee.
Tough one, but if it comes to the crunch I think May will screw him and be done with it to save the others. Of course, that'll seriously strain her relationship with Bern... even more so if she lies about it or doesn't tell her.
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Correction, he saw May's weakness was her promiscuity, not her homosexuality. :P
http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic/book0/fs22pg15.html
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Correction, he saw May's weakness was her promiscuity, not her homosexuality. :P
http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic/book0/fs22pg15.html
I didn't say "May's" weakness. Homosexuality was apparently Bern's weakness (He said so in his interview). But possibly not anymore now that she's out of the closet.
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Correction, he saw May's weakness was her promiscuity, not her homosexuality. :P
http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic/book0/fs22pg15.html
I didn't say "May's" weakness. Homosexuality was apparently Bern's weakness (He said so in his interview). But possibly not anymore now that she's out of the closet.
oh
OH. damn it, reading too fast/too distracted today :P
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Well looks like May will be staying in the Cooler longer than the standard two weeks :-\
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oh
OH. damn it, reading too fast/too distracted today :P
...dare I ask what could distract you from flipside?
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I'll give you three guesses Charles and the first two dont count lol
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Guess 1: Chi and Bast
Guess 2: Catching your reflection and bathing in self awesomeness for a moment.
Guess 3: A sound from a dark corner that could have been Bloody Mary
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I bet Moss gets off on extorting sex from people.
Couldn't you see that? Goes out to town, picks the hottest girl, and blackmails her with her weakness.
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I...could see that as a Moss thing, Crystal. He does seem to enjoy making people suffer.
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If Moss is a total jerk, I can see him sleeping with May, and then he would leave her locked up there...
That would be mean, but I suppose he is capable of it, since I'm really doubtful he would make May free with all his other companions and uncle and that shortie kid around, he's not a man who would shot himself in the back willingly.
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It just surprises me that more people are not guessing that Moss, is working with Maytag's captures. I mean the first one tries to get her to have sex and she refuses, so pop, in a jail and lo and behold, Moss is there saying that he'll help her escape if she'll have sex with him.
two plus two still equals four..and this is either an impostor or Moss is working with them
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Maytag's getting pretty upset about Moss's condition for helping her. I wonder if she's starting to feel some stress over this whole ordeal. Even if Moss isn't purposefully testing Maytag at this point and is truly looking for sexual gratification, after what happened in the tub and with Fata, this has got to not only testing her "weakness" but also increasing her concern over Bern and the others' wellbeing.
Well, or it is just Moss and his fucked up self... :'(
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hmmm, she pretty much saved his life after he gave her the equivalent pain of her fingernails being ripped off and eyes exploding or some such thing... I'm pretty sure she should be able to call in the favor. But I guess she's not exactly in a bargaining position to argue too much.
Moss is taking a fair risk if he's really going to help her. They could read Maytag's memories if she fails to escape and easily work out that it was Moss who assisted. Plus it seems like they're 1. dangerous and 2. he's got a pretty good thing going.
If we presume it was his uncle who wanted those notes on the 4th level of sorcery then I guess this is still all closely tied to that investigation.
The other thing that still bugs me are the chances that this group just happened to stop the group with Maytag in it. I'm still thinking Moss might have told them about her and it may have been orchestrated. Heck, we still don't know exactly what Shepherd was doing in that bar with Bern and Maytag.
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You know, I remember reading in the Notebook section about Maytag that "she's *not* the sort of person you want to have as an enemy*... I wonder if Moss is about to become an enemy of May's and what she would do as a result.
I'm also really curious to know where Glyph is. Bern and Crest too, of course, but since Glyph is the one who decided to stop at the Bed & Breakfast, I wonder if he's somehow connected with them (although, it didn't seem like it last we saw him). We haven't seen him since he went off to get sandwiches.
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Hmm, May seems more stressed and desperate than at the moment when she was being eaten alive by Mary, cause despite everything she was in control then.
That's rather a bad sign.
I think she will break cause she knows she can't do anything now, and Bern is locked somewhere.
But still I think that Moss won't help her, even if she have sex with him.
I doubt they planned this all along to have them as recruits and then Moss would let them out.
Or that uncle told Moss to let Maytag out and bring her and he just screwing with her and us.
Or this is just another stupid test, damn I want my rational thinking May again.
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Hmm, May seems more stressed and desperate than at the moment when she was being eaten alive by Mary, cause despite everything she was in control then.
That's rather a bad sign.
I think she will break cause she knows she can't do anything now, and Bern is locked somewhere.
But still I think that Moss won't help her, even if she have sex with him.
I doubt they planned this all along to have them as recruits and then Moss would let them out.
Or that uncle told Moss to let Maytag out and bring her and he just screwing with her and us.
Or this is just another stupid test, damn I want my rational thinking May again.
Hmm... you know, when May was with Mary she had her suit on. May doesn't have her suit at the moment, therefore her submissive personality is dominating. I wonder if that factors in at all to how well she handles stressful situations.
Then again, the situations aren't the same. Maytag saw Mary as a victim - a victim of the people she is now imprisoned by. She doesn't know that they plan on trying to "recruit" them (whatever that would entail), she probably assumes that they're going to conduct experiments on not just her, but her friends. There's much more at stake here.
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That's gratitude for you. She saves his life after he tries to kill her, so to pay her back he fucks with her head. And...tries to fuck with something else. I'm wondering if she just might give in to save her friends. She doesn't have her costume, so there goes her confidence. Poor May.
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Maytag doesn't have her suit, but doesn't she still have her D-bag? If it's absorbed into her body, there's no reason to leave it somewhere just because she's taking a bath. And it seems like the type of the thing that would be difficult to remove from a person forcibly.
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I hope that Moss is doing this for a bigger reason than to screw with her head, I really do. I hoped that he was going to be one of the good guys, and it'd be a shame to miss out on a new potential character to add to the Flipside protagonist team :/
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Maytag doesn't have her suit, but doesn't she still have her D-bag? If it's absorbed into her body, there's no reason to leave it somewhere just because she's taking a bath. And it seems like the type of the thing that would be difficult to remove from a person forcibly.
Good point! She should have some things in there to throw at him for being mean. I don't think he's even going to help her.
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Jewel, I just would love to see when Moss and the other jerks got beaten by Maitag...
I hope she refuses Moss-jerks "offer" :P
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May would be a lot better off in her suit right now, trying to negotiate in shy May mode probably wont work out so well for her :|
And Moss is acting right in line with his character, immature, sadistic and disconnected. Can't say it's a surprise, even if he's being a total douche. >.>
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Maytag doesn't have her suit, but doesn't she still have her D-bag? If it's absorbed into her body, there's no reason to leave it somewhere just because she's taking a bath. And it seems like the type of the thing that would be difficult to remove from a person forcibly.
Good point! She should have some things in there to throw at him for being mean. I don't think he's even going to help her.
Personally I suspect they've taken the D-Bags off them or suppressed the ability for Maytag and Suspira to use them. Maytag has clothes in her D-Bag do she'd be dressed right now if she could call on it.
Hmmmm, If I were Maytag I'd stall for time. She still doesn't know exactly what she's in for here or how bad the situation is. It might not be that bad at all and Moss was just sent to release her anyway and is taking the opportunity to really be... well... Moss :P
I think she needs to stall him for time, just say she needs to think about it, and otherwise try to squeeze more information out of him on whats going on and just how much danger her and the others are really in. Hell, maybe demand that she speak to Bern, Suspira or Crest first.
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I'm thinking this is a test for May, and she won't have sex with Moss, no matter what he says.
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Maytag doesn't have her suit, but doesn't she still have her D-bag? If it's absorbed into her body, there's no reason to leave it somewhere just because she's taking a bath. And it seems like the type of the thing that would be difficult to remove from a person forcibly.
Good point! She should have some things in there to throw at him for being mean. I don't think he's even going to help her.
Personally I suspect they've taken the D-Bags off them or suppressed the ability for Maytag and Suspira to use them. Maytag has clothes in her D-Bag do she'd be dressed right now if she could call on it.
Mm, good point. They are pretty sneaky magic people.
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That dude seems mean. Whatever. She should do it. At least they would get out of this hotel hell. But Maytag has but every skill point in bluff, diplomacy, sense motive, and intimidate. She'll be able to negotiate a way out of this, probably without cheating on Bernadette.
...
Even if Bernadette doesn't deserve her.
CREST/MAYTAG 4 EVER!!!
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Hard to say. Maytag has nothing to negotiate with. No leverage she can hold over or against Moss. Thats what she had in her previous negotiations. With Derriks she gained the illusion of control over the situation by making him believe she held his life in her hands. With the gang members she gained leverage with her antidote and show of skill with the knives. With Bloody Mary she gained the leverage of being able to offer her a possible cure.
I can't see how in this case that she has anything more to offer Moss as a bargaining chip (other than sex) or any way to threaten him... Unless she agreed to sex to get him close and then took control, but Moss might be prepared for that. He was only a new level 2 sorcerer when he left her but he's been with his uncle for 6 months and it wouldn't surprise me if he could train up fairly fast under such a sorcerer.
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He was only a new level 2 sorcerer when he left her but he's been with his uncle for 6 months and it wouldn't surprise me if he could train up fairly fast under such a sorcerer.
If his uncle was that great of a sorcerer, why would he need Seraph in the first place?
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Why do years of research yourself when someone's already done the hard work for you *lol*
Plus Seraph may have found a few things he hadn't or been able to access a few archives and places that Danzig didn't have access to.
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If his uncle was that great of a sorcerer, why would he need Seraph in the first place?
Seraph was not only a great sorcerer, he also had money and contacts. Both can go a long way, when doing researches.
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Aw, moss returned to his old state of dickness.
Wonderful.
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Also, maybe Danzig didn't want to train his scrub nephew up to level 2?
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We haven't actually seen Danzig use any actual magic. He could just be a really dickish muggle for all we know.
I mean in this B&B you should not take anything for granted because everything is likely to be a lie.
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Is it just me, or am I the only one that noticed that Moss just gave Maytag a nice bit of info? The fact that the Thin Man could experiment on Bern tells May a couple of things: 1) That she is in a place where he can easily access Bern, and 2) That Moss (and likely the others) are aware of this, and thus it's possible that they are working with the Thin Man. Moss may actually still be trying to help May in his own way. He knows the area better than her, and most likely knows that she wouldn't be able to escape just by getting out of the cell.
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Ouch. Poor Maytag. :( :( :(
You were right Charles. Nothing to bargain with. :(
I would do it if I was Maytag, but then again, if I was Maytag, I would never fall in love with Bernadette in the first place.
It's too bad too, because the more difficult it is for Maytag to rescue everyone, the more pages need to be wasted on Danzig and his ever-increasing circus of douchebags. :(
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Why do years of research yourself when someone's already done the hard work for you *lol*
Plus Seraph may have found a few things he hadn't or been able to access a few archives and places that Danzig didn't have access to.
...Good point.
Something strikes me as odd about Moss's behaviour though. Why is he trying so hard to sleep with Maytag? What's the point? I know he made a pass at her before, in Book 0, but that was because he was lonely and thought she was easy. Forcing her to sleep with him doesn't really fit. And when she turned him down he didn't seem vengeful about it. Plus, they parted on extremely good terms. So... he's either torturing her for the hell of it, no complex reason needed, or... something else we don't know about?
Assuming that this is actually Moss. It could just be Fata Morgana. Again.
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Woow, Moss. Way to be a dick. But with this many people trying to lay with her, something's going on. The secret of the Universe MUST BE in her lady bits.
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The secret of the Universe MUST BE in her lady bits.
looking that Thin man only chooses women as his experiments then maybe...
Still that would mean that Crest and Glyph are goners cause they aren't needed, or they will become Denzig's personal slaves.
The only msolution I can see is Glyph coming back (of course he might''ve been the first who was abducted and then replaced by Fata when he gone to sandwich) and do something, or Bloody Mary comes at scene breaking may from her prison.
Yeah Bloody Mary as a hero would be my choice here if that's even possible.
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hmmm, I'm actually worried about her calling after him in the next page.
I guess Moss has confirmed for sure that they're in league with The Thin Man. But it seems a little in contrast with Danzig's comments that the thin man isn't planning to experiment on them but recruit them.
http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=889
http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=918
I can't see any reason for Danzig to lie in the pages so either he has a warped idea of "recruitment", he's unaware of exactly whats happening to the people he sends to The Thin Man (or Melter) or Moss is pushing a lie to get his way with Maytag... which Maytag might be able to see through if she gets an opportunity to see his reactions better or listen to him explain more.
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Well there is no chance of May tunneling her way out :-\
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Heck, we still don't know about Bern, Crest and Glyph. Maytag's in a cell but maybe that really is part of the tests they're doing together with Moss' current attempt. Suspira is laid down but she might be still be legitimately unconscious from her overexertion rather than any spell they've cast on her.
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Moss, your behavior is despicable. There is absolutely NOTHING "cool" about demanding sex from anyone who is denied the right to say "no." >:(
As for those who would have acquiesced (agreed) to Moss' demands, I have seen far too many times where the prisoner AGREED, slept with the "accomplice" and then the "accomplice" deliberately FOILS the escape attempt. There is no guarantee that agreeing would have resulted in his help.
Now had Moss rescued Maytag UP front, and she, Bern, or even SUSPIRA had been grateful enough to sleep with him afterwards, of her own volition, that would be different. Heck, even owing him a "big favor" would have been far preferable. Demanding that she prostitute herself before even lifting a finger to help, is inexcusable. I hope a meteor lands on him.
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Wow. I knew Moss was selfish, cruel, and slightly mentally deranged due to his "curse" and his messed up childhood, but I'd never truly thought of him as "evil" before today's (wednesday's) comic. Wow. Great writing...really curious where this will all end up!
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NOOOOOOOOO, Maytag, don't do it! :'(
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This is way better.
At least it advances the plot and gets them out of here.
Way to go Maytag. Way to be brave and willing to sacrifice yourself for the good of your friends. It sucks that Moss has to be so evil, but some folks are just morally bankrupt. And they get it in the end.
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If the dilemma is taken at face value (i.e. Moss isn't 'testing' Maytag, and he isn't lying about his intent to help her), then Maytag is definitely doing the right thing. I think even Bernadette would agree with me, since it's not just her life and/or freedom that are at stake, but also Maytag's, Crest's, Suspiria's, and Glyph's.
Of course, chances are that Moss is lying.
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Shit...
I still hope May will lure him and then attack and will get out locking him instead.
Damn May think rational, you're clever cookie, and you see now that Moss is just an evil jerk who needs to be beaten.
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tits!
Yeah, I would bet that Moss is lying.
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Moss is a class A douche. I'm hoping May will, like Kiran suggested, lure him in and then run for it. She definitely wouldn't be able to overpower him, but the element of surprise would really work in her favor... Say, throwing that towel on his face and getting out, then locking her in. I mean, even in desperation, I can't really see her agreeing to have sex with him now.
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hmmm, I'm actually worried about her calling after him in the next page.
Damn... Yeah, if this goes ahead it advances the plot significantly. We skip Maytag having to talk her way out of it and put a threat to Bern and Maytag's relationship back into play. It'll be interesting to see if Maytag keeps it to herself or decides to be honest with Bern.
Two more pages left in the chapter... a lot can happen in two pages. If we're talking brawn, I'd bet Maytag to be a much better fighter than Moss, but she's down an arm and has only a sheet to maybe use as a weapon... Plus Moss can rely on Magick if he can get a word out.
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Okay, for me this raises another question, IF Moss does have sex with Maytag, would he not then be a rapist? Here's a paste from a on-line dictionary at http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rape to save looking:
rape, noun, verb, raped, rap⋅ing
1. the unlawful compelling of a woman through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.
2. any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person.
Moss is using duress to have Maytag have sex with him, if it happens its rape, Maytag would be a victim, and I would wonder just how she'll react to it afterwards. Maybe she'll be able to keep herself together when she's wearing her jester outfit, she can't wear it all the time, and I can she her more...timid personality having a very hard time.
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You read it on the internet so it must be true... ::)
Moss is using blackmail to try to get Maytag to sleep with him. It's unquestionably evil, but whether it's rape is more subjective. Not to put too fine a point on it but in most states in the United States, for example, the duress being referred to is physical duress; i.e. threatening someone's life, not refusing to help them. And even if it is rape Maytag doesn't seem like the type to take it like you seem to imply. She has dealt with this kind of thing before, the assault by Volger was unquestionably sexual, and Maytag turned out fine. Additionally, Maytag is used quite used to non-sexual violence.
Rape (and by extension, violence) is not really the issue here, it's the fact the Maytag is being forced to choose between breaking her promise to Bernadette, or to allow for Bernadette's gruesome and horribly painful demise.
In that light, her choice is obvious, but not in anyway pleasant.
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You read it on the internet so it must be true... ::)
Moss is using blackmail to try to get Maytag to sleep with him. It's unquestionably evil, but whether it's rape is more subjective. Not to put too fine a point on it but in most states in the United States, for example, the duress being referred to is physical duress; i.e. threatening someone's life, not refusing to help them. And even if it is rape Maytag doesn't seem like the type to take it like you seem to imply. She has dealt with this kind of thing before, the assault by Volger was unquestionably sexual, and Maytag turned out fine. Additionally, Maytag is used quite used to non-sexual violence.
Rape (and by extension, violence) is not really the issue here, it's the fact the Maytag is being forced to choose between breaking her promise to Bernadette, or to allow for Bernadette's gruesome and horribly painful demise.
In that light, her choice is obvious, but not in anyway pleasant.
In the legal sense, perhaps not, and in the technical sense, it's not, but I'd certainly say it's accurate to call this the moral equivalent of rape.
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I have to disagree with you, in my view, and as you said it can be views. Maytag has stated that she was not interested in sex with Moss, she's in a dangerous situation. She's being held against her will, by people she has nothing to do with. Her lover is missing and she has no idea about her safety. This is more than just about a broken promise. She's been forced into making a decision against her will. If not for her own safety, maybe for Bern's. I would call what Moss is doing rape.
If a mother is being held against her will, and her child is being held somewhere else, and someone told her she'll be released if she has sex with them, I would NOT call that consensual, that would be rape. Again, this is my view, you can hold a different one and not call it rape, if you don't, then we'll just have to agree that we disagree.
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For the discussion on how much Maytag cares about being raped:
(http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic/book0/fs02pg19.gif)
As for the rest of the discussion on Rape Vs Consensual sex or blackmailing, etc. There's a topic in the debate room for it.
http://www.flipsidecomics.com/forum/index.php?topic=215.0
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I would like to go along with your definition, but doing so muddies up the waters too much.
Say you took dirty pictures of me. And then you told me that you would send them to my dad if I didn't have sex with you. If I complied, would you be a rapist? No, you would not. Because rape requires violence. It the act of taking away someone's sexual freedom through violence or threat of violence. If you raped me, I would feel traumatized not just by your lack of my right to choose but likely more so by your violent attack. If you blackmailed me, I would still be hurt, but less so, because the act itself would likely not be a violent act, because I would likely be somewhat willing participant.
Also, don't forget that Moss is not threatening to do anything to Bernadette himself, just refusing to help Maytag without sex. He never implied that he would hurt Bernadette if May didn't sleep with him. This is an important distinction because unless he actively helped kill Bernadette, he would not be directly responsible for what the Thin Man/Melter did to her.
I would like to add that I respect your opinoin and that you bring up valid points, just not ones that I personally hold to. No matter what we choose to call what Moss is doing, I think both agree it is very very wrong and a likely sign that he has jumped off the deep end from morally ambiguous and distasteful action to unforgivable depravity.
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Please continue the discussion about rape and consensual sex in the relevant debate topic HERE (http://www.flipsidecomics.com/forum/index.php?topic=215.new#new)
I have copied the discussions there.
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Am I the only thinking this could be Fata again?
Or perhaps Moss is just sick of being the only person he knows that May won't sleep with. :P
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Am I the only thinking this could be Fata again?
No, no you're not.
Cold turkeys everywhere, indeed.
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I was thinking that there could be a good chance that Maytag might even kill Moss right then and there, but the promise he's made is to help her AND her friends to escape so unless she's confident she can get the others out without his help she probably won't risk the idea that she can just overpower him or escape herself and get them out.
I'm still a little surprised she's agreed without first prying more information from him on the exact situation They're in. Personally I think it's the real Moss rather than Fata. Even if this is another test I doubt Moss would have much trouble agreeing to do the test himself rather than get Fata to make another illusion.
Anyone else notice that Maytag appears to have purged her emotions? She's wiped her eyes of their tears and looks very focused. It'll be interesting to see the look in her eyes when she opens them... If it's that predatory look then Moss is dead bloody meat.
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Anyone else notice that Maytag appears to have purged her emotions? She's wiped her eyes of their tears and looks very focused. It'll be interesting to see the look in her eyes when she opens them... If it's that predatory look then Moss is dead bloody meat.
Kinda liiiike....
This? http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=317 (http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=317)
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@Foof: Exactly. I'm convinced that Moss is about to get fucked, I'm just not so sure if it's the way he'd like to be :'(
Meh, it probably will be straight sex. I can see how that could create new plot points in the story. Plus I still think Moss is misleading her as to just how much danger they're all in... Then again, if thats the case it could really stir up Danzig if she kills his nephew.
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I'm still a little surprised she's agreed without first prying more information from him on the exact situation They're in.
Well, he was about to walk away?
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Yeah, but she could have done a little more than simply beg him when he was there. Pry out some information about exactly what they were in for. Before he shouted out that the Thin Man would be experimenting on them she didn't have much of a clue what was going on. Only that they were being held against their will.
I guess the illusion of Regina told her that they were doing TESTS on people to help discover the truth about the world but quickly noted that nothing bad would have happened in the bath since Glyph was apparently an illusion. After that Morgana told her that the others are safe but locked in separate cells and that Maytag might be able to see Bernadette later.
All up, it just feels like Maytag should be making some sort of an effort to find out more. Maybe play the concerned lover or friend and ask after Bern and the others to at least have an idea of their situation, or even ask Moss how he plans to help her and her friends. But maybe it comes back to Maytag's admission that she likes disgusting things and that some part of her was actually wants to have sex with Moss and is even happy that she has an excuse to break her promise, thus she's not doing EVERYTHING she can to avoid having sex with Moss.
I'm sure many here are going to start screaming at me about how all women are NOT secretly happy to be raped or forced into sex but I'm just throwing out ideas and theories based on Maytag herself here.
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I don't know. I think it's something born out of actually loving someone.
breaking trust/possibly giving up your ability to be with someone to spare their lives or from something worse than death (i.e. bloody mary).
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I think if May were looking for an excuse, she wouldn't have hesitated.
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@CDSM: Don't be so sure. As confident and certain in life as Maytag appears she is confused about exactly what she wants and may still be controlled by her subconscious to do certain things despite what she may state consciously under a truth spell.
(http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic/book0/fs26pg01.gif)
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@CDSM: Don't be so sure. As confident and certain in life as Maytag appears she is confused about exactly what she wants and may still be controlled by her subconscious to do certain things despite what she may state consciously under a truth spell.
I think that's reading too much into it. Even if it was a "subconscious" thing, I don't it weighs in that much on her decision here, which is obviously her desperation over getting out.
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*lol* yeah, I'm almost certainly reaching too far on that possibility. I just think there's a few discrepancies between what Moss is saying and what we've heard from Danzig in regards to "recruits" and that Maytag really isn't doing much to delve into discovering the exact situation they're all in before agreeing to Moss' conditions.
I actually still like the Idea that Maytag is about to outright kill Moss. I don't think she's killed anyone in a while so it'll probably be a fairly big shock. Plus it could disrupt things as badly as her breaking her promise to Bernadette considering the likely reaction from his uncle Danzig.
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Since I'm fairly certain his uncle Danzig is responsible for him growing up cursed thanks to his experiments, and is using him in the 'family business', I don't think it'd be nearly as big a disruption as all that.
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Yeah, much better to attack the relationship side of things.
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Well didn't May have an occasion to sleep with Moss earlier?
She just didn't find him interesting enough to do it with, if she would old May would do that without blink of an eye.
Here she is just forced without much choice, if she won't sleep with him Bern and other will suffer and will end in the same or worse fate than Bloody Mary, and that's only what May knows currently.
Still she could outsmart him, even by extreme means like biting of his penis if needed ;)
But I really doubt May is so cold blooded to hurt another person over thing like this if he indeed would help them.
Still if Moss would not help her after this or all of this was just some kind of jerking/joke from his side he needs to be put to sleep either by May or Bernadette.
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From what I recall I think we eventually worked out that Maytag didn't sleep with him because it was likely that he'd tell Bern. It was sort of hinted at by Maytag in an interview but the relationship between her and Bern didn't come out 'till later so she couldn't tell us outright. I think either Brion confirmed it in the old forums at some point or Maytag told the whole story in an Ask Maytag vote incentive.
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From what I recall I think we eventually worked out that Maytag didn't sleep with him because it was likely that he'd tell Bern. It was sort of hinted at by Maytag in an interview but the relationship between her and Bern didn't come out 'till later so she couldn't tell us outright. I think either Brion confirmed it in the old forums at some point or Maytag told the whole story in an Ask Maytag vote incentive.
Brion confirmed it here: http://www.flipsidecomics.com/forum/index.php?topic=134.0
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Ahh yep, I remember that now.
Also brings me back to this old question of mine which seems to have been answered now.
I often wonder how friendly they'll be when/if they meet up again in the comic.
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You know, I know a lot of people that were all like "I can't wait for Moss to show up again!" and "Yeah Moss!" when he did.
But now he's going less from of a "Cute Emo Sadist Guy" to a "Complete Prick", and isn't getting so much love now.
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I pity Maytag right now. I think she's going to get screwed in more ways than one.
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You know, I know a lot of people that were all like "I can't wait for Moss to show up again!" and "Yeah Moss!" when he did.
But now he's going less from of a "Cute Emo Sadist Guy" to a "Complete Prick", and isn't getting so much love now.
I never got this "Moss is okay" sentiment. Probably because I have only read half of book zero, but he seems like a dick in his questionare and all of his appearances this arch. Some folks just like antisocial jerkasses I guess. I only like charming antisocial jerkasses. :D
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I never got this "Moss is okay" sentiment. Probably because I have only read half of book zero, but he seems like a dick in his questionare and all of his appearances this arch. Some folks just like antisocial jerkasses I guess. I only like charming antisocial jerkasses. :D
I think people forgot he tortured May for no reason.
Or maybe cuz they're all trying to be like May and see the good in people.
That Maytag. Always making us thinking more openly and positively about the world.
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I just hate him because he looks too much like crest. :P
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Eh, that's one of the results I didn't even considered to happen, that he would jerk her off and stop satisfied with winning and knowing her real weakness.
Good one Brion.
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he seems like a dick
That describes him pretty well.
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Heh. Such style.
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Oh what the hell, Moss.
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If it turns out that May knew that Moss was bluffing, and played along to give him what he wanted so he would help her, thus meaning that in truth nothing really does bother her, I'm gonna blow a gasket. I hate invulnerable characters.
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Moss is a dick, but he's a cool dick.
:P
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Fuck that guy! >:(
I hope he fucking dies horrifically. >:(
I think it would be appropriate if he was boiled in oil. Perhaps Danzig will do the honers. When he finds out that Moss betrayed him. Yeah, that'd be nice
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Phew! I'm so glad Moss was just f'ing with Maytag about having sex with him as a condition for help. Interesting to see Maytag pushed to what seemed to be a "breaking point." I had thought on the previous page she could have purged her emotions, but on this latest page she seems almost defeated/worn down. :(
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Phew! I'm so glad Moss was just f'ing with Maytag about having sex with him as a condition for help. Interesting to see Maytag pushed to what seemed to be a "breaking point." I had thought on the previous page she could have purged her emotions, but on this latest page she seems almost defeated/worn down. :(
The latest page, she also doesn't have on her jester outfit.
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You know why I hate Moss?
Because he's petty.
He hurts May's feelings and makes her agree to do things she doesn't want to do just to see what makes her tick.
He's pointless and he's a sicko.
And he is not in any way charming. At least Danzig has charisma.
If I were a character in May's world, I would vivisect him just to see what makes him tick. Because fuck him, that's why. >:(
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So when I say today's page I both laughed and though "What an asshole"
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You know why I hate Moss?
Because he's petty.
At first, I read that as "Because he's pretty." I was about to argue. :\/
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I like how some people wanted moss to have his comeback all the time and now that he has it, everyone just hates him ^^
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I like how some people wanted moss to have his comeback all the time and now that he has it, everyone just hates him ^^
Well I thought he would change a little in good direction, but still he's an ass, even worse than before ;)
Still it's first time we see May utterly defeated in mind fucking game.
Maybe we will see Bern and Crest after such long absence...
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Yes, Moss is definitely an asshole. Not only does he emotionally abuse Maytag, he's probably going to keep her guessing about his true intentions. Nice play on words though -- "I just want to fuck you" and "I was just fucking with you". Clever, Brion.
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Woow. That was...pretty mean of him. He just wanted to see her squirm after all. But I can say I'm REALLY glad that what I worried about wasn't going to happen.
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May was defeated but...before.... she was never out of her jester outfit when we saw her in action.
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Ah but May could of been faking it?
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Moss is my hero.
He really is a great asshole. By great I mean hes good at what he does.
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Then I am glad we aren't friends IRL. I can't stand people like that.
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He's gone up a notch from "rapist" to douche bag. I still would like to see a meteor land on HIM.
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I think it makes him even worse, in a certain way. If he was going to blackmail Maytag into having sex with him, it would at least give him lust as a pseudo-justification. As it stands, it's cheesy douchebag mindfuckery. Cruelty for it's own sake. Totally not needed. Kinda like a miniature version of Amon Goth in Shindler's List or that kid down the street that tortures squirrels in the back yard. In my opinion, there is no excuse for that. Ever.
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He's gone up a notch from "rapist" to douche bag. I still would like to see a meteor land on HIM.
Wait how is a douche bag worse than a rapist?
Then I am glad we aren't friends IRL. I can't stand people like that.
Well to be fair Moss is still going to help her, its just his 'price' wasn't something that May was expecting/prepared for.I think it makes him even worse, in a certain way. If he was going to blackmail Maytag into having sex with him, it would at least give him lust as a pseudo-justification. As it stands, it's cheesy douchebag mindfuckery. Cruelty for it's own sake. Totally not needed. Kinda like a miniature version of Amon Goth in Shindler's List or that kid down the street that tortures squirrels in the back yard. In my opinion, there is no excuse for that. Ever.
Well he does give a pseudo-justification, he wanted to know May's weakness, and he found it.
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What...a...jerk... >:(
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Moss is officially my favorite character forever.
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new strip.
I have a feeling that this could end very badly for May for some reason. Perhaps it's the fact that she isn't properly dressed and with someone who just said he was going to blackmail her into sex. Weird, huh.
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During my nap today, I had a dream where I saw a Flipside musical.
At least I think it was a Flipside Musical. Maytag was there and it was mostly about having sex...
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That sounds kinda hot. I know what song that Crest would be singing...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pXfHLUlZf4
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Wow! I gotta admit that Moss is a true expert at being an asshole. The comment about smiling made me laugh my ass off.
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Gotta admit, his last comment made me chuckle. But I still smell a trap!
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Wow, he's a fucking asshole. I hope someone sets him on fire.
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New Strip!
I thought Crest was very heroic in the last arch! He used his intelligence to get out of the neverending stairwell.
I like Crest! :D
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I bet Crest has been practicing really hard with his sword.
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Ha, ha, good one ;D. Also, probably because I'm reading the book right now, Maytag's inner dialogue to herself in the most recent strip made me think of Mary Boleyn in The Other Boleyn Girl . Like Mary, Maytag knows she has her own role to play in her current situation. The question is, is she truly happy about it or just content to play it in order to get what she wants and/or what's best for everyone?
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I bet Crest has been practicing really hard with his sword.
What do you mean, we rarely see him use his--Oh ho hoooh. I see what you did theeere.
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HOLY CRUD!
Moss out mind%$#@ed Maytag!
Phew! I'm so glad Moss was just f'ing with Maytag about having sex with him as a condition for help. Interesting to see Maytag pushed to what seemed to be a "breaking point." I had thought on the previous page she could have purged her emotions, but on this latest page she seems almost defeated/worn down. :(
hmmm, Yeah. All that talk about how nothing gets to her but Moss found a soft point. She told him to direct all his malice at her because she could take it but this stuff does get to her. I don't think she's ashamed of her promiscuity, its more a fear at hurting or loosing those she loves because of it.
She didn't immediately blow this off, it really looked like she was crushed there for a moment.
@RoninA: Well... they had a chapter in book 0 where Moss' sad and soppy past was layed out to explain why he's the way he is and his power to see weakness. He's still an arsehole but thats the only explaination of why people were feeling for him and looking forward to his return. Despite this stunt of his I think we'll see a softer side to Moss before he leaves the scene again... Possibly some sort of sacrifice.
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Another itsy bitsy oops Brion, heh. Notice that Moss grabs May by her left arm. Either that, or her right arm has a left hand on it. ;)
edit: Oh, and May has her full left arm in the first two panels.
Of course, we love the disappearing / reappearing arm on May the magical girl.
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This is pretty weird. Yeah, those completely black rooms are pretty disconcerting... :-\