Comics Discussion => Flipside Discussion => Topic started by: Brion Foulke on March 16, 2009, 12:57:13 pm
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This thread is for discussion the rest of chapter 20, pages 17-30.
Uh oh! Will the truth come out? Will there be surprises? What will happen? I'm so nervous!
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HOLY *bleep* *bleep* *bleeeeeeeeeep*
Yeah. Here we were thinking you'd continue the tension of the secret revealing it's self and all of a sudden WHAM! I guess it couldn't continue forever but now their relationship makes a terrible new turn as they fact the issue.
At least they're stuck on that carriage for another 3 days to sort it out.
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The truth just came out, man. You're just reusing your post from last time. Shaaaaame!
I've always had the feeling Bern knew all along. I'm not sure I'd like it more if she did or not, though. The dramabomb that this will likely set off if she didn't will be immense. I can't wait!
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I wish Suspira was nicer about it. Just becuase she exposed the truth doesn't mean she should roister in shadenfroid, but that's just me. :o
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Ha! I knew it! You like defiling your peanut butter with jam! Shame on you!
I've also had the feeling the entire time that Bern has known all along...
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Crest should keep his mouth shut. He's just annoying right now, and in the way.
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He's not annoying. He's saying what I'm thinking. He's also as powerless to stop Susperia as I am. But even if he is annoying and in the way, at least he's that instead of his usual Pinball Protagonist roll.
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He's also as powerless to stop Susperia
I dunno I could think of a few wasy to try and stop her.... But the end result would probably be death from the over emotional basketcase that Susperia is at this point in the story.
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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH!!!
*runs around screaming in panic*
I think it will ease Maytags mind sortof, to finally have told Bernadette, and then they can work on their problems and that "compromising", IF Bernadette forgives her. D:
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I've also had the feeling the entire time that Bern has known all along...
You mean somewhere in Book 0 Where Maytag's going out and Bern asks her not to put the jester outfit on? That's always had an "Cuz I know you'll sleep around if you do" tone to it in my mind.
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Ha! I knew it! You like defiling your peanut butter with jam! Shame on you!
I've also had the feeling the entire time that Bern has known all along...
Yeah. I think so too sometimes. Becuase she could find out pretty easily if she tried...
And your avatar is super cute by the way :-[.
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Thats 'cos Akashayi's super cute ::)
The one thing that leads me to think that Bern doesn't know is her conversation 'round the camp fire where she praises Maytag for her honesty and open opinions. Considering Bern was willing to lie to the knights, give up her dream of becoming one and even die rather than live without Maytag, it'll be interesting to see how she reacts to the Maytag falling from the high pinacle she's placed her on.
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Bern's face always looked a little off at the campfire. She probably doesn't know, but that look she had on always made me a little suspicious.
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looks fine to me *shrug* (http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=415)
Even this one looks alright (http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=416)
I must agree that I still feel like Bern has a few secrets of her own though. Sometimes, I think people also believe what they want to. It could be that Bern had inklings as to Maytag's fidelity but unwittingly ignored them in favour of the idealistic, Mary Sue, image she'd formed of her. I was wondering if Suspira was going to continue the inquest but that last panel looks like she's dropped the spell.
Any idea why EVERYONE is sweating so much? I can understand Maytag and Bern, maybe even Crest, but whats up with Suspira... Unless it's the effort of casting the lvl 3 nagelring spell *shrug*.
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Suspiria's struggling to hold the spell, May and Bern are nervous and struggling against it. Crest is...well, he's Crest. He gets nervous easily.
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...relieved.
And I'm too.
So I suppose Bern knew all along about May cheating habits,but was waiting maybe for her to confess,so in some way Suspiria helped them.
But if she knew why she didn't take any action?
Hah it seems even May is surprised,next page should be interesting...
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It does make me wonder though, how much did Bern know?
Did she...
a) Know all along, just relieved at the confession so that they can now be open and confront it.
b) Expect it to happen because of May's personality and to have the confirmed truth means that May has stayed the same person she ever was.
or something else?
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So this is, why Suspiria is also sweating. It's a exhausting spell.
And most of us where right, Bernadette knew something. Else her reaction would have been very different. Now, what did she know, and that both of them know that she knew all along, what is she willing to accept?
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Hi. First time here. Loving Flipside so far.
I have a theory on why Bern could be relieved. She now sees that Maytag is not perfect, that she's human. Being with someone you see as "perfect", without flaws, can be quite difficult.
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Totally called it.
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1. Suspira is out of essence
2. Bern just stood up in a moving carriage
I'd say she's going to kick her arse but *shrug*
I guess the other thing is all Bern knows is that Maytag cheated on her. She doesn't know how much or anything like that... Unless the relief is at finally hearing a truth she's known all along.
I'm hoping we hear the reason behind her relief but I guess she has no reason to divulge the truth now the spell is gone.
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just a possibility: Bern may also have cheated? That's why she's relieved?
i rather doubt it, but just wanted to throw it out there.
..love how Glyph called Suspiria an idiot..apparently she hasn't learned much or matured much after Kin's death. You'd think she'd be more careful with her essence. But also, I wonder if all the Phalanx are a bunch of juvenile peeping toms and spoiled brats.
yeah I can't wait to see what Bern is going to do here, although I think she's just going to give Nessy a good scare. Not that that will do much - after a night's rest she can still destroy Bern at will as long as she doesn't deplete herself again.
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You'd think she'd be more careful with her essence. But also, I wonder if all the Phalanx are a bunch of juvenile peeping toms and spoiled brats.
Given Kin's words before going to fight Mary, I don't think so.
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I'd say she's going to kick her arse
That would be pointless and out of character.
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I think that when she innevitably passes out suspira will get a good talking to, by Bern and Maytag...
*Naked* :-[
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You'd think she'd be more careful with her essence. But also, I wonder if all the Phalanx are a bunch of juvenile peeping toms and spoiled brats.
Given Kin's words before going to fight Mary, I don't think so.
I was going to respond that only those getting involved with May and Bern, but forgot about Kin. Why? Hell if I know.
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Now its time for Bern to beat that bitch like the dirty rug she is.
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just a possibility: Bern may also have cheated? That's why she's relieved?
i rather doubt it, but just wanted to throw it out there.
That's what I was thinking -- that Bern was relieved because she did something bad too, and now she feels she can confess to Maytag.
It'd be nice to see this whole thing blow up in Suspiria's face.
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Now its time for Bern to beat that bitch like the dirty rug she is.
i love you
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just a possibility: Bern may also have cheated? That's why she's relieved?
i rather doubt it, but just wanted to throw it out there.
That's what I was thinking -- that Bern was relieved because she did something bad too, and now she feels she can confess to Maytag.
It'd be nice to see this whole thing blow up in Suspiria's face.
I would be really surprised if Bern with her morality would have cheated on May,while being with her in love relationship,with some girl on the side.
It would be totally out of her character.
But again we don't know what they were doing while being together in relationship in time prior to this story,maybe Bern learned that May was cheating on her,and she gone to bar,met some nice girl and she did it with her due to some kind of revenge.
Heh,I'm curious what motives Brion will show us in next pages.
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Totally called it.
This.
And yes, if she doesn't kick Susperia's ass then I'm expecting a smack, or at least a threat.
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Now its time for Bern to beat that bitch like the dirty rug she is.
hahahaha
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just a possibility: Bern may also have cheated? That's why she's relieved?
I think that is exactly what it means. The only reason I can see for Bern to say she's relieved is because she's been hiding the same thing from May.
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Or she knew it all along and she's happy to finally have it out in the open.
Although it is seeming a little more likely she cheated. Why wouldn't she have left May like she did her last girlfriend is she knew? Hmm...
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I've been really psyched for this! What an interesting answer from Bernadette.
I knew she isn't stupid or oblivious, I mean I think if your S.O. cheats on you as much as May cheats on Bern .. you'd notice.
Also the art has been really really pretty for these last few pages, I don't know what it is exactly but I think it kind of recalls your old style, Brion. Which I more than approve of. :D
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Come on Bern, get your smackdown on! Kick some magey ass.
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Bring in the kiddy pool filled with chocolate pudding! :-*
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No, no, it has to be jello! My money is on Bern still. (Not hard, since Suspiria has no blade to protect her now and is totally drained of her essence.)
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I don't think Bern has her blade with her either, but I agree she'll still kick Suspira's arse (or at least I hope she gives her a good slap on the face.
BTW. Is there Custard to go with that jellow or Choc Pud?
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I don't think Bern has her blade with her either, but I agree she'll still kick Suspira's arse (or at least I hope she gives her a good slap on the face.
why wouldn't she carry her swords with her ?
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Well, I don't see them. I'm not saying she hasn't brought them. They're probably on top or in some storage compartment somewhere on the carriage. I just don't think she has them IN the carriage WITH her. (She also has that great big Duffle bag you might remember and Crest had a bag as well I think.
http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=437
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Yea but swords aren't something you just put away, they do no good in a duffel bag. Also you don't see the swords in that picture either but she Does pull them out of the sheaths to fight Mary when the fear is removed.
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True, Brion is known to forget them at times *lol*. But I'm not trying to Suggest she's put them in her duffle bag. Just that the diffle bag doesn't appear to be in the compartment so it's probably in whatever storage area they're keeping the swords and other supplies such as inside the roof, under seats or that area Glyph is riding on. (http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=753)
*meh* Well see soon enough what Bern's about to pull. Heck, she may simply ask to be let out, which could be troublesome if they're anywhere near Bloody Mary. (I know Mary's sworn to eat the bad humans, but I wonder where that might leave her grudge with Bern *shrug*)
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It was expected.
*slap*
It's first time for me when I'm a bit scarred of Bern's look,especially in 2nd panel.
Bad children were punished.
May and Bern further talk should be rather done privately,not with all this poeple around.
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Darn! No Pudding Fight! :(
Mmmm... Pudding! :-*
Oh well, that look makes me think that Suspira learned a valueable lession (at least about how to act while Bernedette is around ::)).
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*bows to charles, who totally called it*
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Bitchslap!
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Go Bern, go!
On a different note... Suspiria looks adorable in the last panel. Bitch or not. <3
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I really like "That goes for you too scumbag!" hahaha
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Scary Bern!
And yeah, I gotta agree with Bern on sorcery. Sure it's like the science of Flipside, but the little differences mean a lot here. While it's true that only a sorcerer can make a magic item in the same way only a scientists can (generally) invent anything especially high-tech, being able to build a laser gun doesn't mean you can now fire lasers from your fingertips. It's just too much power for one individual to have, especially when (as far as we know) there's no way to take it away from them.
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Bern, I wish I could say you disappointed me, but I expected something like this. And no, Xshu, it's the same concept. Being against all sorcery because some misuse it is a horrible generalization.
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Yeah, the whole "with great power comes great responsibility" philosophy needs to be taught to these kids. Sure enough some of them probably do respect it, but from what I've seen through the comic so far there's way to few. It needs to be part of the first lessons at Eschelon to make sure they understand that their power can easily be abused but to sell the respect of the public towards sorcery, it must not be.
I think Bern's hit the nail on the head. This is why the knights are able to exist, not because they are able to offer better protection but because there are plenty of sorcerers out there who abuse the power and that sets the people against them all.
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Who the heck cares? Sorcery there is like wealth over here on planet Earth. A lot of people abuse it, but there are a hell of a lot of good people that are extremely wealthy.
Bern reminds me of a sort of Jane Six Pack on that page. If she could use sorcery, she'd probably put it to good use, yet she hates it. Why? Probably because she herself can't use it.
Seriously, she and her jealousy and uppity sense of justice are getting on my nerves pretty quickly. Bitch needs to learn that not everyone in the world is an uptight moral goody two-shoes like her.
Though at the same time, both Suspiria and Glyph (Glyph especially) *did* let it all go to their heads. Suspiria could probably be a hell of a lot more powerful if she learned some self-control with her power and didn't just burn right through each and every bit of it at every possible opportunity.
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The big difference is that Sorcery is something that is taught and passed on to pupils. Thus it should be no issue to include education on it's appropriate use and even refusal by the University at Eschelon to teach or provide resources to those who abuse it.
Granted you'll STILL get some slip through the cracks but they should at least make an effort to seal and tighten as many cracks as is reasonable. Like her father however, Bern's acceptance of the sword shows that she is possibly coming around to the idea that the user and not the magick it's self are to blame for it's misuse and that throwing away it's use so we're only left with those who would abuse it, is probably not the best solution. Thats like blaming guns and banning their use by everyone, including the police and security forces until only criminals are left with 'em.
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Do you really think anyone has the right to limit someone's potential because of the chance they might misuse it? What an awful line of reasoning.
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Well, it could be argued that terrorists have limited potential because they don't have easy access to nuke weapons. But I'm not gonna suggest they should be given it, 'cos that would also be an awful line of reasoning ;)
I didn't say restrict if there's a CHANCE they might misuse it. I'm suggesting that if they DO misuse it, then they should be banished from accessing the knowledge and resources that the University of Eschelon can provide, unless they redeem or correct themselves. However, as one might be expected to undergo a safety course before being granted the license for a weapon, or a test before being granted a license to drive the first lessons a sorcerer should be taught is the RESPONSIBLE use of their gift/power and refusal to take that lesson or show an understanding of it, should possibly be grounds for refusal to provide resources and knowledge to further their arts.
Granted, just as someone without a gun license may come about one illegally and someone without a driver's license may learn to drive a car, a sorcerer may learn to break their seals and/or cast certain spells, all on their own. But they should not be provided the means by the university until they've learnt the lessons regarding responsiblility for that power or shown they understand them.
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I think it's funny that Bernedette hates sorcery, but blatenly inores that her own girlfreind is a magic user. Maytag may not be a wizard, but she uses magic items all the time. ::)
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Except sorcery isn't inherently a weapon. I can understand not teaching dangerous spells to everyone, but ALL SORCERY? That's like saying nuclear weapons are dangerous, so we shouldn't sell anyone bandages.
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No... thats a horrible connection they should be somewhat related. How about... Nuclear weapons are dangerous, so we shouldn't use radiation to try and cure cancer.
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And no, Xshu, it's the same concept. Being against all sorcery because some misuse it is a horrible generalization.
I disagree. Why? This (http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=536) is why. Sorcery lets you essentially invent spells on the fly via meditation. Spells are not taught, so weaponized spells cannot be limited. Anyone who wants a dangerous spell need only meditate on it and, bam, Moss gets his horrible torture spells. Magic is not a science equivalent, magic items are a science equivalent. Magic itself is power, and power:
1. Corrupts.
2. Is sought by those who would seek to use it.
Saying magic is good is like saying super powers are good. Sure there are a ton of people who use their power altruistically, but they're just plain outnumbered by the people who use it selfishly. Look at any fictional superhero world and tell me with a straight face it's in better shape than ours. Inevitably some villain wins the superpower lottery and the world goes to hell while the heroes stop them.
Who the heck cares? Sorcery there is like wealth over here on planet Earth. A lot of people abuse it, but there are a hell of a lot of good people that are extremely wealthy.
Wow, using the wealthy as an example for power being good? A gutsy move. True enough, but like I said, there are just plain more villains than heroes.
If she could use sorcery, she'd probably put it to good use, yet she hates it. Why? Probably because she herself can't use it.
Everyone can learn sorcery, most people just choose not to. Even people who don't learn sorcery can use magic items. Bern chooses not to use them because she doesn't believe it's right, not the other way around.
Do you really think anyone has the right to limit someone's potential because of the chance they might misuse it?
God. Yes.
I'm suggesting that if they DO misuse it, then they should be banished from accessing the knowledge and resources that the University of Eschelon can provide, unless they redeem or correct themselves
But the problem is that once they know it, they know it. They can cut off their ties to Eschelon's University, but they'll still know how to use magic and they can still abuse it. Even if they can't go up in level, they can still use and learn lots of spells. It's not like taking away someone's gun, or even their bullets. It's like realizing they're abusing their gun, and then just...not letting them buy a bigger one.
Except sorcery isn't inherently a weapon. I can understand not teaching dangerous spells to everyone, but ALL SORCERY? That's like saying nuclear weapons are dangerous, so we shouldn't sell anyone bandages.
No, it isn't. Because of the method by which sorcerers can spontaneously generate their own spells, it's more like there's only one branch of science, and people can use it to do anything they want. So it's more nothing like science.
No... thats a horrible connection they should be somewhat related. How about... Nuclear weapons are dangerous, so we shouldn't use radiation to try and cure cancer.
A better example, but still flawed. It's as if there was only kind of radioactive machine, and it had the settings "nuke" and "cure". Now hand them out to everyone who "really wants to cure" and spends years learning to do it. Eventually some of them are going to go haywire, and then "oh fuck", you need to hunt them down. By the time you do, how many people have died? With all we've seen, is sorcery doing more good or bad? For every person we've seen healed by sorcery, even counting potions, we've seen a dozen killed. Now we have an honest-to-god supervillain on our hands pumping out monsters created by sorcery.
Sorry, I'm with Bern here.
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I was just trying to correct Seick (Sorry if the i and e are suppose to be switched I can't seem to remember with your name), I really try too stay out of politics :-X
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Hey, no problem. I just had to bite that example before it got used. XD
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Saying magic is good is like saying super powers are good. Sure there are a ton of people who use their power altruistically, but they're just plain outnumbered by the people who use it selfishly.
There are people with superpowers around?
Look at any fictional superhero world and tell me with a straight face it's in better shape than ours. Inevitably some villain wins the superpower lottery and the world goes to hell while the heroes stop them.
Tell me any fictional world that does not have an inherent conflict for the sake of the story.
The main balance factor I see for magic in the flipside world is it's draining nature. It ensures that a small group of high level magicans can not stand against the masses of low level and non magic users. There seems to already have been some liberation process in Iscariot, because the masses are not suppressed.
So rules on magic use can be set, and a regulative force installed. Unluckily our two abusers are part of this executive.
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And what about the Thin Man? He's not low level in the least, and he's causing serious problems.
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I think it's neccessary to look carefully at what Bern says here:
"This is why I hate sorcery, because people like you will abuse it."
You have to look at it from Bernadette's perspective; she has spent years perfecting her skill with the sword. It required diligence, dedication and most of all discipline. Suspiria didn't have any of that; she was basically born with this incredible gift to work magic. She never really had to 'work' for it. In that way, the wealth analogy does apply; generally those who have to work to achieve great wealth have a greater respect for what it means than those who just have it given to them. I think Bern sees magic as something that gives tremendous power to someone, yet all too often requires no discipline to attain that power, and whenever you combine power without discipline, you are going to get those who abuse that power.
Now, getting back to Bern being relieved that May has cheated, I still think it means she has done the same. As someone pointed out, this does seem contrary to her whole sense of honor, but there are a couple of points that bear thought. First, she's only human, and humans often do things they feel are wrong. Second, she does like to drink, and even though she has a high tolerance for alcohol, that doesn't mean it can't affect her judgment. I think it's quite possible that Suspiria may have done Bern and May a great service in bringing this all out in the open, even though her intention was to do harm.
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I'm suggesting that if they DO misuse it, then they should be banished from accessing the knowledge and resources that the University of Eschelon can provide, unless they redeem or correct themselves
But the problem is that once they know it, they know it. They can cut off their ties to Eschelon's University, but they'll still know how to use magic and they can still abuse it. Even if they can't go up in level, they can still use and learn lots of spells. It's not like taking away someone's gun, or even their bullets. It's like realizing they're abusing their gun, and then just...not letting them buy a bigger one.
....snip...
Sorry, I'm with Bern here.
Well, if we're talking about a serious break of the law or something then obviously more must be done than simply restricting their access to the Universities resources. I guess abuse of it could be compared to a driver's license in the sense that minor deviations such as speeding and drink driving might simply constitute a loss of license while serious offences such as vehicular homicide/manslaughter would attract jail time.
But granted, removal of resources and education could be compared to Russia pulling out provision of nuclear education and material to Iran. They still know what they've already been taught, they just don't have easy access to more materials in the future or further education from those who have already learnt the lessons.
Despite the fact a sorcerer simply needs to meditate to discover the appropriate spells and can work many out by themselves there's still a good deal of research required. You may need a good understanding of biology to achieve healing and body alterations (such as what the Thin Man does which even Qtalda is incapable of understanding). There's probably a good deal of knowledge required to enchant items permanently and to case mind altering spells such as nagelring, bloodlust and create potions.
As for Bern's statement. Certainly it might be better for all involved if the Magick could be taken away from the entire world, just like it could be argued that the removal of nuclear capability might be better despite the loss of it's medical and energy benefits. However, without the ability to remove it completely you're stuck with needing it yourself just like Bern's father Grant realised that the knights could not hope to stand against powerful magicks without using some themselves. It's be like police with only battons, fighting gangs and criminals with guns.
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Except sorcery isn't inherently a weapon. I can understand not teaching dangerous spells to everyone, but ALL SORCERY? That's like saying nuclear weapons are dangerous, so we shouldn't sell anyone bandages.
Damn straight. Everyone knows that bandaids are pushed out by the axis of evil... I mean, sorcerers. :P
This is likely going to be a very awkward ride, or Bern and May will walk.
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9 pages left in the chapter (and the 4th book for that matter) to 'round things up. Personally I think it'll end with their arrival in Eschelon. But I guess you're right and it could be an ending by the camp fire, or something more deadly (what with Mary, Melter and the Thin Man out and about.
I guess the fact that Bern was already planning to walk to Eschelon and the company (possibly including her own beloved Maytag) has become a little sour, could entice her to leave them.
@Brion: page 155 of Book 3 advertised Book 4 as due out in 2010. Has that date moved forward thanks to a quicker than expected turn-out of pages?
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I disagree. Why? This (http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=536) is why. Sorcery lets you essentially invent spells on the fly via meditation. Spells are not taught, so weaponized spells cannot be limited. Anyone who wants a dangerous spell need only meditate on it and, bam, Moss gets his horrible torture spells. Magic is not a science equivalent, magic items are a science equivalent. Magic itself is power, and power:
1. Corrupts.
2. Is sought by those who would seek to use it.
Saying magic is good is like saying super powers are good. Sure there are a ton of people who use their power altruistically, but they're just plain outnumbered by the people who use it selfishly. Look at any fictional superhero world and tell me with a straight face it's in better shape than ours. Inevitably some villain wins the superpower lottery and the world goes to hell while the heroes stop them.
Power doesn't corrupt, it just attracts the nutters In any case: sorcery had to be come from somewhere; which kinda suggests you can come across it without being taught. Imagine a world with one sorcerer; he'd be almost like a god. With a few sorcerers they're just more powerful than usual. It's like any power, the more people who have it the less it's worth. The solution to my mind is to teach as many people sorcery as possible so that the forces balance. If the town had been full of magic users BM would just have been a curious oddity entrapped in a sphere of air or something.
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Despite the fact a sorcerer simply needs to meditate to discover the appropriate spells and can work many out by themselves there's still a good deal of research required.
We're not given any indication of this. All we're told is that one needs to meditate to find spells within one's self. I'm sure for things like the Thin Man's experiments you'd need some pretty heavy biology knowledge, but if you just want a spell that makes people's hearts explode, you just need to spend a while looking for it as far as we know.
However, without the ability to remove it completely you're stuck with needing it yourself just like Bern's father Grant realised that the knights could not hope to stand against powerful magicks without using some themselves. It's be like police with only battons, fighting gangs and criminals with guns.
Have to agree with you there. They're stuck with magic now. They made their bed and now they've got to sleep in it, but I still believe they're better off without it.
Power doesn't corrupt, it just attracts the nutters
I disagree. I did already say it's sought by those who would seek to use it, though.
In any case: sorcery had to be come from somewhere; which kinda suggests you can come across it without being taught.
You can. Susperia wasn't taught, she was just spontaneously amazing.
The solution to my mind is to teach as many people sorcery as possible so that the forces balance.
...Wasn't that one of the apocalypse scenarios in Heroes?
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Everyone can learn sorcery, most people just choose not to. Even people who don't learn sorcery can use magic items. Bern chooses not to use them because she doesn't believe it's right, not the other way around.
She chooses to learn swordplay. That a form of power. Granted, it has nowhere near the strength and utility of magic, but if Bern was of a mind to, she could certainly use her physical fitness and skill to tyrannize people.
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I disagree. I did already say it's sought by those who would seek to use it, though.
There are people in power who at least seem not to be corrupted though, which suggests that it's something about the person - whether they're nutters, seeking power for power's sake; easily corrupted - rather than the power itself.
...Wasn't that one of the apocalypse scenarios in Heroes?
Dunno, didn't watch it. Since we haven't seen magic on the level of strategic weapons however I think the analogy would be closer to arming people with guns.
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@Brion: page 155 of Book 3 advertised Book 4 as due out in 2010. Has that date moved forward thanks to a quicker than expected turn-out of pages?
I just said 2010 to give myself breathing room. If it comes out earlier than expected, no one will complain. If I has said 2009 and it turned out to be 2010, people would complain. Right now it's looking like it will come out late this year, or early next. Even after chapter 4 is finished, I won't be able to start printing it until after conventions season anyway.
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You shouldn't have said that. Now people are going to see the dates you say and assume that's the "breathing room date," subtract a year, and complain when it's on time.
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if people assume he means earlier than he actually said then it goes past when they expect it is 100% their fault
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For serious. I'll just be happy when it comes out.
As long as I can make it to comic-con and harass you properly for it.
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Pozf, no it isn't, because the argument could be made that he told us to expect it early.
Either way, I see no need to ever buy the book. I look at the comic online, and thus help generate ad revenue for Brion. I do my part.
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Yes on this occasion, but if its not stated in a different occasion it doesn't matter. Assuming what someone does based on what they have done in the past (on something like this) is never a safe assumption unless its happened every time, even then it might not be
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She chooses to learn swordplay. That a form of power. Granted, it has nowhere near the strength and utility of magic, but if Bern was of a mind to, she could certainly use her physical fitness and skill to tyrannize people.
And I imagine if Bernadette saw someone abusing fighting prowess for purely selfish reasons, she'd be just as ready to slap them, or worse.
In any case, I think that the suggestion that Suspira is trying to break up May & Bern, or really trying to enslave May, are misplaced. She's lashing out because of the loss of Kin, and she'll lash out at anyone around her until she comes to terms with it. She has to "prove" that May & Bern are not right for each other to try and prove to herself that she did not really love Kin, although it's becoming increasingly clear that she did love him very much.
And congratulations to Brion for producing yet another comic that satisfied my inner sense of justice.
RR
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And what about the Thin Man? He's not low level in the least, and he's causing serious problems.
The Thin Man is well hidden and avoids open confrontation. Someone who wants to rule or set laws would have to do that sooner or later.
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stuff
Wordy McWord. Seems like there's a lot of Bern hate cycling around the discussion, and I don't really see why. It's always been clear that she's had a strong sense of justice; makes sense, considering that her life goal was to become a knight. She never said she hates sorcerers, only that she hates sorcery because of the people who abuse it. If anything, she most likely hates people who abuse power. Maytag doesn't do that, so, she doesn't hate Maytag, even if Maytag uses sorcery. In fact she loves Maytag. I don't see the conflict.
Bern's answer surprised me, but in a good way. She was probably trying to blind herself to Maytag's nature, even going so far as to attempt to change it to suit her own needs (hence, the nude posing argument). I think Suspira forced a more honest answer out of her - that perhaps she's relieved because she didn't manage to change Maytag's personality. Or maybe I should put it this way, that she didn't manage to change Maytag's personality. As when Bern herself decided to pass up her chance at Knighthood, that sort of change has to come from the person themselves. Remember, Maytag specifically got concerned about that decision - she thought that she was forcing Bernadette to give up her dream and didn't want that guilt/responsibility. And Bern reassured her by confirming that Knighthood wasn't really what she wanted for herself, in the end. So to that effect, I think Bern's answer shows something that maybe she herself didn't even want to realize: she may not like what Maytag really does, but she doesn't want Maytag to change just for her, presumably because she loves her. I think it's actually quite sweet in a traditional sappy romance kind of way. (That's a compliment, not a critique. I like sappy romances.)
Of course I could be totally wrong about that, so I guess we have 9 more pages to find out.
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You know... I don't actually believe it that much myself, but what if magick does corrupt in this world?
Learning magick involves breaking seals in a person's mind which appear to restrict them in some way from accessing and tapping into this potential. Before gaining her magick, Suspira is described as "shy", "hardworking" and "gracious"... I'm not sure I could have come up with a greater contrast to the Suspira we know now. Most of the magick users we've met have all been psychos in some form or another, from the over logical Qtalda and Seraph to the highly emotional Noventia and Suspira.
I don't know about the use of magick items, but For some reason the powerful Xibulba collar appeared to remove many inhibitions and general care for others, but I can't work out why someone would put that characteristic into a collar that also gave you speed and strength improvements. Maytag's suit just had regular enchantments to keep it clean but what if even those have an unknown side effect?
Bern and the knights appear to be the only ones who generally try to avoid magick, and the only one's who seem to have the vast majority of what us Terrans would deem as normal inhibitions.
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Pozf, no it isn't, because the argument could be made that he told us to expect it early.
Either way, I see no need to ever buy the book. I look at the comic online, and thus help generate ad revenue for Brion. I do my part.
Ok, then I take it back. Because of you, it'll be 2010. Happy, now?
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There is at least one strategically logical reason to make an item like the Xibulba collar. To disrupt the judicial and policing systems of a city intended for capture or a city/citadel that needs to be neutralized as a threat to be bypassed in pursuit of a strategically more important target.
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She chooses to learn swordplay. That a form of power. Granted, it has nowhere near the strength and utility of magic, but if Bern was of a mind to, she could certainly use her physical fitness and skill to tyrannize people.
That's not really a good example, if only because Bern's style of swordplay means she can't fight well unless she's attacked. However, even if she did fight in an offensive style, swordplay can only be used for three things: protecting, attacking, and competing. It can't be used to, say, kidnap a girl and experiment on her until she's a monster. It can't simulate horrible torture that will never kill you, infringe on people's personal privacy, or create monsters that eat and dissolve people. Swordplay is dangerous, but magic is just ridiculously abusable.
There are people in power who at least seem not to be corrupted though, which suggests that it's something about the person - whether they're nutters, seeking power for power's sake; easily corrupted - rather than the power itself.
People in power who seem to be good people may well be good people, and this is because power does not corrupt instantly; it's a gradual process. This is why most Presidencies and similar positions in democratic countries have limited terms. People can be trusted to have power over a country for a few years, but the longer they have it the more likely they are to abuse it. You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become a villain.
Since we haven't seen magic on the level of strategic weapons however I think the analogy would be closer to arming people with guns.
True enough. However, I'm not sure how much that helps your case. Giving everyone a gun might seem like a nice way to even the odds on paper, but the criminals pull their guns first. If you own a gun and it's in your pocket, and some guy pulls a gun on you and demands your money, are you going to reach for your gun? You could be shot dead if you do. In the USA most people are allowed to buy guns, but in the end it's still the criminals and the cops who end up using their guns the most.
The Thin Man is well hidden and avoids open confrontation. Someone who wants to rule or set laws would have to do that sooner or later.
I don't think it's safe to say what the Thin Man wants just yet. Regardless, we know he's very powerful and very criminal.
So to that effect, I think Bern's answer shows something that maybe she herself didn't even want to realize: she may not like what Maytag really does, but she doesn't want Maytag to change just for her, presumably because she loves her.
I like your sentiment, but I just don't see that being the case. If Bern broke up with her last girlfriend for cheating, there must be some kind of deeper reason she's relieved to hear the same thing from May.
charles' stuff
That's what I'm sayin'! Well, probably not about Maytag's suit, but yeah. The more power people have, the more they feel like they can get away with anything. Since the Xibulba collar offered physical enhancements rather than simply magical abilities, it probably made the wearer feel invincible, which would explain why it made the wearer much worse than sorcerers. Power corrupts.
Ok, then I take it back. Because of you, it'll be 2010. Happy, now?
*glares at Admiral*
There is at least one strategically logical reason to make an item like the Xibulba collar.
True, but we don't know about any wars that have ever taken place. At this point, your theory is speculation about speculation. I think a simpler answer would be that whoever made it is just a dick, or that the corrupting nature of the collar is just a side-effect of a normal person becoming so powerful.
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Pozf, no it isn't, because the argument could be made that he told us to expect it early.
Either way, I see no need to ever buy the book. I look at the comic online, and thus help generate ad revenue for Brion. I do my part.
Ok, then I take it back. Because of you, it'll be 2010. Happy, now?
So the release date of the book will be delayed because of someone who won't by the book?
Nah, kidding. Obvious change of statement just to nullify the one thats causing the silly debate. ::)
@Xshu: The Xibulba collar does actually warp the mind it's self, in a way which is described in one of the books. It's not just a matter of "I have power so now I feel like being a dick." Yeah, some arse of a sorcerer actually put that functionality into the collar and I see one of only two possible reasons. 1: as you state, said sorcerer was a dick. 2: It was necessary for the speed/reflex/strength functions to work. It's stated that the mind is a conduit for magick. What if a permanent enchantment, such as that upon the Xibulba collar, gets around the lack of need for a recharge by tapping into the user's mind, even without the user having a broken seal? *shrug*
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Ok, then I take it back. Because of you, it'll be 2010. Happy, now?
YOU'RE KILLING ME, SMALLS
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Relax, I was kidding. But it may still come out in 2010, and it will have nothing to do with Admiral... it depends on my financial situation.
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Will you be taking pre-orders?
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The Thin Man is well hidden and avoids open confrontation. Someone who wants to rule or set laws would have to do that sooner or later.
I don't think it's safe to say what the Thin Man wants just yet. Regardless, we know he's very powerful and very criminal.
Right, but we know that he hides somewhere. Hiding is some sort of avoiding confrontation. For the reasons he does that, we can only speculate about.
There is at least one strategically logical reason to make an item like the Xibulba collar.
True, but we don't know about any wars that have ever taken place. At this point, your theory is speculation about speculation. I think a simpler answer would be that whoever made it is just a dick, or that the corrupting nature of the collar is just a side-effect of a normal person becoming so powerful.
I could think of several reasons for the Xibula making. EG. a tradition where someone has to prove his manhod (or for religious reasons) by hunting down a magically overpowerd persons, or gladiatorial combat between xibulaniacs. But as you said, that's only speculation about speculation.
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DUN DUN DUUUN. Called it!
So she knew. Crazy crazy. So...like...what? Why didn't she...like...what was she...
WTF!? I called it, but I still don't get it.
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AHHHHH! :D :-* :-[
Thats... SO CUTE!
Bernedette and Maytag are Back Together! Bernedette and Magtag are Back Together!
Bernedette and Maytag are Back TOGETHER! YAY! :D :-* :-[
...
What? they weren't ever broken up? Awkward. :'(
But still... YAY! :-*
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Cute moment...
Bern is the best ^^
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Isn't it cute? I still don't understand why the hell it's happening, but it's so cute!
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Happy happy joy joy?
Edit: I find it HILARIOUS that Bern's face looks completely round in row 2 picture 2 ;D
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One word.
AWWWW!
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Of Course.
And now that everyone's happy, it's time to go kick some ass! ./cues epic bad 80s rock music.
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9 pages left in the chapter (and the 4th book for that matter) to 'round things up. Personally I think it'll end with their arrival in Eschelon. But I guess you're right and it could be an ending by the camp fire, or something more deadly (what with Mary, Melter and the Thin Man out and about.
I guess the fact that Bern was already planning to walk to Eschelon and the company (possibly including her own beloved Maytag) has become a little sour, could entice her to leave them.
@Brion: page 155 of Book 3 advertised Book 4 as due out in 2010. Has that date moved forward thanks to a quicker than expected turn-out of pages?
Well, though Suspiria did save Bern's life, she asked that Maytag become her slave. (can you even imagine Maytag or Bern asking payment of anything for saving someone's life?) Got Maytag to pose nude, tried to drive a wedge between May and Bern, got the one person she loved killed. Failed at stopping Mary, tried to have Maytag as her slave again, put a spell on both of them against their will. And of course the pervert driver. I'm with Bern's idea, I'll walk to.
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Damn Maytag, girl you dumb.
(and aaaah, I love Bern, she's so pretty <3)
There was totally foreshadowing of this (as Brion tends and loves to do) I think way back (in Book 0????) where Bern says something like "if there's conflict in what lovers want i think the relationship is doomed from the beginning" (I probably am getting that totally wrong.), and again where they are around the campfire on the way to Brahma and Bern gives May this like, knowing look ... and again when Bern says something like "3 years ... look how far we've come".
Rad.
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Bern says something like "if there's conflict in what lovers want i think the relationship is doomed from the beginning"
but if she did say something like that, what does it all mean, in light of her current reaction? ??? Does it just mean that she realized that, although May was cheating, she knew that May still wanted the same thing as what Bern wanted? (that thing presumably being the love they shared?)
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Bern says something like "if there's conflict in what lovers want i think the relationship is doomed from the beginning"
but if she did say something like that, what does it all mean, in light of her current reaction? ??? Does it just mean that she realized that, although May was cheating, she knew that May still wanted the same thing as what Bern wanted? (that thing presumably being the love they shared?)
I guess it's because even though she's been aware of what's going on this whole time, she deals with it anyway, because she loves May and just wants to be with her.
Happens all the time in far more unbalanced relationships than theirs, like girls who stay with abusive boyfriends and the like.
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:o
...nuff said.
WOW Brion! Good work. Surprised the majority of us I think. Damn, we're all gonna be sifting through the archives now to find all the hints we missed on Bern's knowledge of Maytag's fidelity. I guess there's more to learn now as to how she knew, why she kept it secret (and how in the case of a poker player) and why she's remained with Maytag despite it.
Best I got, is she felt guilty for never commiting to Maytag openly so she never felt bad about Maytag not commiting to her.
But the fact that Bern has pulled a fast one over her all this time as Maytag's sat back and thought she was pulling the fast ones is just classic!
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Pretty sneaky, Bern!
Damn, we're all gonna be sifting through the archives now to find all the hints we missed on Bern's knowledge of Maytag's infidelity.
Nah.
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Why? if Bern knew about it all this time why bother dredge through the archives.
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Why? if Bern knew about it all this time why bother dredge through the archives.
Because it makes my traffic go up...?
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Yeah, but people are just going to go and see connections that are simply coincidence.
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There were dozens of hints we missed that Maytag and Bern were in a relationship (ok, so not everyone missed them. A good many had guessed by the time they had been revealed). So I'm simply wondering what hints we've missed from Bern that suggests she knew about Maytag cheating on her.
It's possible that Maytag may have told her about how she broke up with Xenfa and Bern simply guessed that the same was going on between them, but was able to tolerate it while she remained discrete. (Sorry for those who don't own the books and have no clue who Xenfa is. She sort of referred to him here (http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=302)). But looking at the mention that Bern broke up with Clairen because of cheating here (http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=305) you'd think she wouldn't be that tolerant (although they didn't specify that it was Clairen who cheated, but it's a good bet). There's this little speech (http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=363) to Orrasong that may have hinted at her having developed a greater understanding for differences.
But without going into Book 0 for hints I think this sequence where she tells Crest the story of how they met (http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=410) is our best bet. Right there, Maytag tells her exactly how it's going to happen, how she'll be fooled into thinking Maytag's wonderful but eventually believer, like everyone else, that she's nothing but scum... And Bern accepts it and pushes ahead anyway.
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Xenfa's the guy who called her scum, right? Which is why it hit so hard when Crest did it. Wish I thought've saving that side story when it was still on the site >_>
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Yep. The side story is about their breakup. But I just remembered that there was a second story which is still online, about how he and Maytag met:
http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic/misc/fsSStitl.html
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Yeah, I was referring to their breakup. But what I meant before was just because something earlier fits with the current story doesn't mean it was meant as a hint, or that Brion knew this would happen so far in advance. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't, but aside from going "called it" (if you noticed it beforehand), looking for what you missed seems rather useless.
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*shrug*, he usually seems to plan pretty pretty far ahead: http://forum.failureverification.net/showthread.php?t=403
As for looking for what we missed. Heck, it's fun to see all the hints and just how well Brion has been shaping events around the fact that Bern has presumably known all along. In many cases, actions and comments that may not have made sense previously or only had a simple, shallow meaning, suddenly take on a much deeper and surprising one. Plus, you can sometimes discover new truths about events and characters, such as Shepherd's erase of Derrick's mind when we discovered that the Phalanx didn't posess that level of control over the brain, and the fact the Thin Man is known to have this ability/knowledge.
Granted, Bern's statement of knowing Maytag's sexual frolics might not reveal anything that interesting, but *shrug*. It does make you wonder a bit about all those statements by Bern about honesty, in bed with Maytag, outside the knights palace/castle after coming out of the closet and at the camp fire with Crest. But maybe she just remembered what Maytag had told her on the bridge each time.
It'll actually be interesting to find out why Bern hid the knowledge from Maytag and how Maytag might react to the fact that Bern has let her believe she was getting away with it all this time.
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Bern's statement of knowing Maytag's sexual frolics might not reveal anything that interesting, but *shrug*.
I don't think Bernadette needs to know of any specific incident -- isn't it enough to know Maytag's character and history?
Bernadette may have realized that Maytag's own intense self-doubt would lead her to seek sexual intimacy with others, simply so she could have a reason to give up on their relationship later.
If Bernadette brings it up first, what kind of example does that set? As soon as you have a problem, I'm gonna jump down your throat? As Einstein said, "The example of great and pure individuals is the only thing that can lead us to noble thoughts and deeds."
RR
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But what I meant before was just because something earlier fits with the current story doesn't mean it was meant as a hint, or that Brion knew this would happen so far in advance.
Well, we could ask him.
Hey Brion, did you drop any hints that Bern knew? Was this planned far in advance?
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Yep, it sure was!
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I think it's awsome. We can all stop worrying about Bern and May staying together and look ahead to the developing story line (and maby some more random fanservice :-[).
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(shakes head in shame at Ronin's post)
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ok we've hadd the soppy stuff let the killing begin! ok ok need to come off the tripple strength coffee in the near future.
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(shakes head in shame at Ronin's post)
Seriously.
...isn't it Wednesday yet? No? Bah. Feels like Wednesday.
It just occurred to me that Bern's black suit is all black. Uh... solid black. Have you ever considered adding some mild tinting to indicate mass with it? I'm not sure how it would look, but it'd be interesting to try anyway.
(I notice it and am reminded of how 'the other comic' that I read has a few characters who are or are wearing black, and that the artist has complained about his markers dying because of it. Someone pointed out that he's really wasting his markers because even black has its definitions. It's not quite the case here, as you are using a digital program, and your shading is good, but I wanted to mention it anyway.)
Also, Bern is pretty awesome.
Well, I'm not wasting any markers. But yes, of course added shading would of course be better. However, recently I've mainly been relying on cross-hatching for shading, and using tones just for certain panels. It's quicker and I also think it looks good in a more basic way. But yes, it's something to consider.
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The only further hints I can come up with are:
The few occasions that Bern has suddenly appeared in Maytag's defence. Hard to imagine that she simply appears at the right time and place so I get the impression that she might have followed Maytag on occasion. This includes the rescue at THE ASYLUM and the rescue from Voulger.
The Conversation Maytag had with Moss and Regina at the camp headed for their Disolving test. Bern was in a tent and may have heard the conversation. The next day, Bern and May get in a huge fight but make up after their fight with the maw.
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I think we all know the real answer here: Bernadette reads the comic.
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I most certainly do not!
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In my humble opinion, this strip is the definitive tip that Bern knew everything that was happening around her (plus WHY it was happening) all along:
http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=619
C'mon! Bern is the stated mistress of the art of checking out the whole of a situation in a single glance, and you folks are so surprised she was able to outwit Maytag's attempts to outwit her?
Last panel is, in a very subtle way, truly Bern's finest moment.
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(shakes head in shame at Ronin's post)
Seriously.
alright guys get off of Ronin. Everybody loves fanservice except possibly you two. Sheesh, puritans.
anyway it seems condescending to feel ashamed at what someone who is not you says. It sounds like you're the boss of them and what they say reflects on you.[/rant] sorry. ronin probably didn't give a crap, but I got defensive.
also: it has been mentioned that there isn't enough Male fanservice...is that the problem?
Welcome to the forums Bernadette! And erana!
edit: Bern is winning such major points with me right now. Like superhuman points. If only people were like this on Earth..she may have handled this in the best way possible I think, with a view towards the long term health of the relationship. :(
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I most certainly do not!
wat
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I most certainly do not!
wat
I second this.
Also: BECAUSE, Crest, she wanted Maytag to confess by herself of course. Either that, or she wasn't 100% sure and didn't want to come across as overly jealous and restricting to Maytag.
That's what I think.
On another note, Bern is my hero. <3
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"Do you think I'm a fool? I've been with you for three and a half years, now..."
It seems my deductions were accurate :D
Bernadette knew simply because she's Bernadette, and knowing everything that happens around her is what she does. :-*
Has not been a plot twist, has been character definition.
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@Bernadette: So you don't read the comic... You just read the forums ::). Well we don't think you're a fool Bern.
I do like that old pic of Bern. Can't say why *shrug*
hmmmmm. Maytag's not a child ANY MORE.
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Bernadette IS crazy awesome. <33333
I have to say that this and last week were the weeks where I was checking everyday to see the updates or to check if by any chance there was an extra page up. xDD
It didn't come out quite like I'd imagined, but that doesn't mean it's not good.
Also- is this the place to put this?- there's a typo in the last panel where Crest is talking. It's "something" not "soemthing."
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Like Bern said, she knew Maytag well enough to realize that Maytag loved her, and would eventually learn to appreciate Bern's view. I don't think she had that with her old girlfriend, and the cheating in that case was merely an excuse to end what was already over.
And Umber, ha, damn, when did you start taking me seriously? I've got nothing against fanservice if it's not annoyingly obvious about it (cough Glyph's "special" eyepiece cough).
And yeah, Mira, this is where you point it out, Brion checks this thread and will fix it.
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I don't believe this for a second. Common guys, am I the only one that doesn't trust the direction of where this chapter seems to be heading? Notice that no specifics have been given as to how often Maytag has cheated or who she cheated with. It feels like a set up for a misunderstanding. This is classic writing for that style of situation, almost cliche.
My opinion? Bern thinks Maytag cheated with CREST!
She doesn't know anything about all the times Maytag has cheated on her because Maytag is an excellent lier. Crest, on the other hand, is not. Bern noticed how oddly Crest has been acting. How Crest jumped in to try and stop Susperia from asking a question. Maybe even the the note passing (especially assuming that the interlude where Crest ate the note was cannon). She knew they spent some time together, alone. She knows Crest has/had a cush on Maytag. She must have wondered why Crest was at the door, peeping on them before Orsong caught him.
This is the lesbian reveal all over again, in that it's going to be a suprise and there was a lot of planning beforehand. Brion has been setting this up for a long time and we now are about to be hit with the big reveal.
Besides, there is nothing I have seen in Bern's personality that says to me that she would be okay with being cheated on, multiple times but she could if she thought it was just once, and thus an aberration.
PS. I like the author's reply, "Yep, it sure was." So delightfully ambiguous. Yes it WAS planned but he says nothing on whether or not about how Bern "knew" about it. Cause he can't. :P
Same deal for, "because it makes my traffic go up?" He's not giving a definitive statement, one way or the other, he's just letting you guys assume what you think you aready know.
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Well,we know May cheated few times with Umber and her boyfriend for sure.
Maybe Umber told Bern.
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(shakes head in shame at Ronin's post)
Seriously.
alright guys get off of Ronin. Everybody loves fanservice except possibly you two. Sheesh, puritans.
anyway it seems condescending to feel ashamed at what someone who is not you says. It sounds like you're the boss of them and what they say reflects on you.[/rant] sorry. ronin probably didn't give a crap, but I got defensive.
also: it has been mentioned that there isn't enough Male fanservice...is that the problem?
Welcome to the forums Bernadette! And erana!
edit: Bern is winning such major points with me right now. Like superhuman points. If only people were like this on Earth..she may have handled this in the best way possible I think, with a view towards the long term health of the relationship. :(
Your so sweet! :-*
Thanks for backing me up! :D
(as far as the male fanservice, I don't have much to say about it, because I like muscles and muscles don't translate well to manga. Occupational hazard.
I am usuallly kind of annoyed with Bernedette's relationship style. :-\ But I agree, she is scoring major points here. I like how levelheaded and forgiving she's being.
Yay! Bernedette. :D
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And Umber, ha, damn, when did you start taking me seriously? I've got nothing against fanservice if it's not annoyingly obvious about it (cough Glyph's "special" eyepiece cough).
yeah I realized you might be kidding immediately after. I thought about editing my post but thought I'd give you guys the chance to go "Ha yeah right Umber, IDIOT." Hard to know with you sometimes...maybe I'll get it after a while. :)
disagree about the eyepiece though, I loved that. I mean, hey, this is fiction here, we're allowed to have fun with it! edit2: also, it allowed for what I thought was a very touching portrait of Bern (though touching isn't the right word...beautiful maybe?), and Maytag was no less striking. Just seeing them completely naked while they didn't know they were being seen that way...while they were kind of lost in their thoughts. Plus I just loved that pervy little "Plip" as Glyph switched the thing on. ;D
edit: @Ronin: the part about the male fanservice was actually supposed to be a dig at Sieck, and at Deatzh if she wanted it...sorry! : P (just seeing if I could rile people up *evil devil smiley*)
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My opinion? Bern thinks Maytag cheated with CREST!
That wouldn't really fit the "you're not a child anymore" line of thought, in my opinion. If she were cheating with Crest, this would have been something she'd done less than a week ago. Also, Crest got pretty defensive of Bern when Orransong started lecturing her. If he were with Maytag, wouldn't he have kept quiet and hoped for a breakup?
DBZ anyone? Manly-looking men can exist in the style.
Dragon Ball Z is not exactly known for its pretty art.
Also: Everyone's jumping on the Bern train now! Woot woot! All aboard!
I have surprisingly little to say, otherwise.
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I'm actually surprised there aren't some people flipping out that Bern knew and hasn't taken May to task.
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I'm actually surprised there aren't some people flipping out that Bern knew and hasn't taken May to task.
I'm still confused as to why we haven't had any lesbian sex scenes in almost two years.
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@LordKat: *spits coffee across monitor*. But heck, Amen to that *PMSL*
Personally, I think Bern knows or suspects all. She's stated that she knows Maytag, and with the story of how they met plus the admission by Maytag at that point stating she was scum and Bern would one-day think so too. Granted, she might not know of EVERY incident, but she's probably directly aware of a number of occasions and suspects a good more, but she knows Maytag loves her. The will to cut herself to ribbons to save Bern and her thanks to Suspira for saving Bern proved that. Then Bern let go of her own conflicts with becoming a knight to finally come out and commit to Maytag.
I doubt there's any single moment of realisation as much as there's probably just her always knowing. Considering Maytag's so good at reading people, I think she simply wanted to believe so bad that she was getting away with it and not hurting Bern that she mentally blocked out the signs.
SIDE NOTE: Considering all it's lead to, I think Glyph's eye piece was necessary. It let the discussion between Bern and Maytag about everyone having permission start and it Let Bern really rip in to sorcerers abusing their power.
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This certainly gives Bern a good reason to have been so curt to May and Britannus. I mean, besides how much of an ass he was being.
It also explains why Bern was so vague and smirky in her last interview when someone asked if she thought May was the type to cheat on her.
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Ebon of Haint: Hello Bernadette. You're lovely, and so is Maytag. You're very lucky. But haven't you ever suspected her as the kind of person to cheat on you? You seem to give her a lot of blind trust. What about her intrigues you so much that you gave up your dreams for her?
Thank you, but... I don't really feel comfortable talking about that subject.
hmmm, it would be interesting to hear her response now, but I suspect we're about to hear it in the comic anyway.
I wonder if there's anything to note in the face she made to that question. The name is "eyes left"
(http://www.flipsidecomics.com/int-bern2-eyesleft.gif)
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So to Deatzh re: fanservice and stuff.
Well, so one of you was serious. So then I'm glad I made my earlier comments. In my view, it's a free forum. People should feel free to say whatever they want, within sensible reason. That's all. Also disagree with your take on fanservice. It certainly can be done in poor taste, and not add much to a comic, or even detract from it (I definitely have comics I feel that way about) but I think Flipside's is particularly tasteful. Maytag's boobs are too big, but not nearly as bad as at least one of Kin's drawings..well I'm ok with that though. Maytag is meant to be a hottie in an anime-ish world of generally good looking people. But what I mean is that Flipside's fanservice, if you can call it such, is for the most part pretty darn artistic, and I generally find it very intriguing to look at. It also adds something to what's going on in the story in my view, even if just by evoking a feeling. Nakedness brings another element into the way you're seeing the character at that moment, and the way other characters are seeing them too. It's like, representative of something or other, and stuff. I dunno, but I like it.
but we can disagree of course, and that's fine! just wanted to state my opinion.
also: I love it when charles does our research for us..;D well Xshu too, in this case.
I also can't wait to see what's happening next here, and where the story's going next. This has been a very interesting portion of the comic since they got in the carriage. I didn't really expect it. -to be so good I mean!
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*meh* if I was serious I'd be going through Book 0... Well, I already had a little look through it, but just a quick scan for the general knowledge of the conversation at the Camp with Moss and Regina, plus the fight they had before the Maw showed up. If I dig deeper, I'd probably see far more hints, but suffice to say that one thing really struck me when looking through Book 0... Maytag really has grown up. I found her early wearing of the Jester suit made her act quite childish, but not so much since Book 1 (6 months later).
There's a heap of other interesting things to see in the interviews and even the notebook. Bern hasn't revealed much of her past, she's ashamed of something in her past and she's been drinking since she was quite young. She also avoided the question on if she's ever had sex with a man, but that might be simply because she hadn't revealed her sexuality at that point.
@umberissexy: and thanks for your PM to me. Yeah I thought the response fit nicely *lol*.
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I wonder if there's anything to note in the face she made to that question. The name is "eyes left"
(http://www.flipsidecomics.com/int-bern2-eyesleft.gif)
But...her eyes are pointing to her right...I'm so confused...So to Deatzh re: fanservice and stuff.
Well, so one of you was serious.
Well, here's the thing. I was kidding of course about "shaming" Ronin. He wants boobies, nothing wrong with that. But I do agree that fanservice should not get in the way of actual plot.
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If I dig deeper, I'd probably see far more hints, but suffice to say that one thing really struck me when looking through Book 0... Maytag really has grown up.
Really? And here I was of the opinion that Maytag handled things much better in book 0. To me it seems like she's at her most childish -now-. Or, not now, but during these latest story arcs.
About fanservice: I agree with most here that it should never get in the way of the plot, or become the main point of a comic (read: Love Hina, and that one samurai manga which name I've forgotten...) but every now and then, it's absolutely fine.
Even though I -still- miss male fanservice. Ahem.
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see? told ya. Male fanservice badly needed! (for females, that is!)
@Admiral: well does it get in the way in Flipside, you think?
@charles: well, I lol'd, and wanted to acknowledge it!
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When was the last time you remember her REALLY playing out in her Jester suit? She's been very serious of late. Even the jokes she made with Mary in the cave.
In the old book I found her willing to shout out something obnoxious at any moment. She even let the guys she was flirting with get close to Bern and she took them to places like the aslyum where she had them get into bar fights and sword matches with assassins. I'm not sure she was convinced that her relationship with Bern was as strong as she thought... Until Bern walked through the portal for her: http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic/book0/fs26pg36.html
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When was the last time you remember her REALLY playing out in her Jester suit? She's been very serious of late. Even the jokes she made with Mary in the cave.
In the old book I found her willing to shout out something obnoxious at any moment. She even let the guys she was flirting with get close to Bern and she took them to places like the aslyum where she had them get into bar fights and sword matches with assassins. I'm not sure she was convinced that her relationship with Bern was as strong as she thought... Until Bern walked through the portal for her: http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic/book0/fs26pg36.html
Maybe you're right about that, but I found that fun, and cute! Not only that, but in book zero Maytag was always genuinely sympathetic. All those scenes with Regina for example, Maytag was always wonderful in those. ( http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic/book0/fs26pg23.html for example)
In the newer chapters she seems more fake than fun. Might just be the situations and issues with Bernadette of course, but I'd like to see some of that old May.
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interesting take...so committing to the relationship has taken all the fun out of her? I have that feeling sometimes...
I meant to say that I do wonder the status of her "split personality". She doesn't seem to be as different between the two to me the last few times she's been out of the suit. Perhaps that's part of the growing up she's done as well.
the scenes with Regina were great...
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interesting take...so committing to the relationship has taken all the fun out of her? I have that feeling sometimes...
No no, not what I meant at all. I think them committing is great - I'm talking about the good jokes, the being-genuinely-interested-in-others and sympathetic-bits.
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I think Bern has inspired Maytag to become a more responsible member of the community and I like to think that Maytag has inspired Bern to loosen the stick up her arse. :o
jking
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I'd prefer not to have stupid fanservice in place of a legitimate comic. Thanks. Ronin's fanservice requests after every single page update are annoying me. (At the point that it is a joke: it's terribly worn out.) Also, muscle and anime? DBZ anyone? Manly-looking men can exist in the style.
Last panel: "Soemthing" Sorry if it's been mentioned.
Yay, it's Wednesday, new page, still find Bernadette to be awesome.
Geez! Relax! Someone woke up on the wrong side of the habitat! :-\
So I like watching chicks make out! Let he who doesn't read Flipside cast the first stone! ::)
And as far as muscle conversation is concerned. Manga is good at
portraying this...
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b189/kaykay007/Fruits_Basket___Androgyny_by_Kartoo.jpg
http://www.zoejaremus.com/images/androgyny/9_and_large.jpg
But not as good at portraying this...
http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-3008934-b-w-young-sporty-man-over-black-background.html
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Whatever. ::)
You knew you were being mean or you wouldn't have said anything. :-\
Listen, I happen to like fanservice. And "girly" romance and character development for that matter. I make no appologies for that.
If sometimes I wish that the comic had a little more romance and a little less action, that's my right. If I happen to be a little more vocal and request that it goes in that direction more often then some others, it's becuase I feel I'm in the minority about this and if I don't say something, my voice will never be heard. :-\
And I thought I was doing it with humor and not going overboard about it. If you don't think so that's fine. But my preferences are my own and I have the right to express them.
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I think Bern has inspired Maytag to become a more responsible member of the community and I like to think that Maytag has inspired Bern to loosen the stick up her arse. :o
jking
Yes. I agree to this. The stick isn't lodged so firmly of late, and they are each starting to act more like the other. Ahh... truly a couple :-*!
But I think some of Maytag's seriousness is enviormental right now. She's dealing with realationship troubles with Bern and she just lost an arm to a phychotic cannibal, and then promised to free her from her condition and was quickly rebuffed (fucking Qtalda! I hate that bitch >:(!). Let's not forget one of their party members brutally died like a day or two ago in the comic. Perhaps all that drama is enough to dampen even May's spirits? :(
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(fucking Qtalda! I hate that bitch >:(!).
Why? It's not her fault that there are magical limitations that prevent her from helping Mary . Not like shes saying "Yea... I could but I'm not going to."
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(fucking Qtalda! I hate that bitch >:(!).
Why? It's not her fault that there are magical limitations that prevent her from helping Mary . Not like shes saying "Yea... I could but I'm not going to."
Well, I think that she's lying for starters. It's just like someone in power to make up some elaborate excuse to not help.
It's her attitude that makes me not trust her. I can't imagine a good person hearing Mary's story and not being moved by it. She's dysfunctional. :/
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Now now, let's not fight. The next person to argue is either going to cause the comic to have lots of unnecessary fan-service, or no fan-service at all, depending on what is the opposite of what you wanted!
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*snigger*
Better obey mr. Lobster, now. We wouldn't want any rash resicions to be made, eh?
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I think Bern has inspired Maytag to become a more responsible member of the community and I like to think that Maytag has inspired Bern to loosen the stick up her arse. :o
jking
Yes. I agree to this. The stick isn't lodged so firmly of late, and they are each starting to act more like the other. Ahh... truly a couple :-*!
But I think some of Maytag's seriousness is enviormental right now. She's dealing with realationship troubles with Bern and she just lost an arm to a phychotic cannibal, and then promised to free her from her condition and was quickly rebuffed (fucking Qtalda! I hate that bitch >:(!). Let's not one of their party members brutally died like a day or two ago in the comic. Perhaps all that drama is enough to dampen even May's spirits? :(
That stick being her desire for monogamy? Sorry, but if that's the case I'd rather that she lodge it up even further - May has been doing the wrong thing for a long time, and its high time that she faced the music. Not that she will, from the looks of things.
On another note, most of the latest developments have been rather depressing. People have died horribly and others have been seriously mutilated. I can see why Maytag might get a little serious. For once :P
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Now now, let's not fight. The next person to argue is either going to cause the comic to have lots of unnecessary fan-service, or no fan-service at all, depending on what is the opposite of what you wanted!
I DEMAND LOBSTER PORN! >:(
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Now now, let's not fight. The next person to argue is either going to cause the comic to have lots of unnecessary fan-service, or no fan-service at all, depending on what is the opposite of what you wanted!
*thinks*
I HATE fan service. DON'T give us heaps and heaps of it!
*waits for fan service to roll in*
...yeah so I'm a smart-arse *shrug*
The stick up Bern's arse tends to be a bit possessive. Obviously, the vast majority of the community of earth believe a monogamy and discretion is the way to go and will simply believe that Maytag needs to compromise her beliefs to conform with Bern's. The reality is that they BOTH need to compromise, and Bern has shown that she's able do this by possibly accepting things like Kin's drawing and the ability to accept a certain level of Maytag's frivolous side that, up 'till now, she's hidden from Bern. Likewise, Maytag has at least committed to stop cheating and is becoming more honest by not hiding the side of her that Bern might find hard to accept or simply giving her false promises by stating it won't happen again. She compromised on the Slavery by agreeing to end it, and Bern (after a little more time) appears to be able to tolerate nude art of her.
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Now now, let's not fight. The next person to argue is either going to cause the comic to have lots of unnecessary fan-service, or no fan-service at all, depending on what is the opposite of what you wanted!
I DEMAND LOBSTER PORN! >:(
Bad LordKaT! Now we won't get any! >:(
And Deatzh, what is this "This Junk is Junk" you keep mentioning?
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see? told ya. Male fanservice badly needed! (for females, that is!)
God, yes, please. We finally had Kindred and suddenly, lo, he was snatched out from underneath us like so many rugs.
Brion, need 1000 CCs of beefcake men, STAT.
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How do lobsters do it, anyway..?
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Veeeeeery carefully.
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God, yes, please. We finally had Kindred and suddenly, lo, he was snatched out from underneath us like so many rugs.
Brion, need 1000 CCs of beefcake men, STAT.
The next chapter should satisfy you, I hope!
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Is the next chapter where crest discover's he's gay?
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The next chapter should satisfy you, I hope!
What do you have planned for me...should I be terrified?
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What do you have planned for me...should I be terrified?
Well, considering you are a lesbian, I don't think you are particularly interested in male fan service, are you?
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How come we never see Bernadette and Brion online at different times?
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Like Bern said, she knew Maytag well enough to realize that Maytag loved her, and would eventually learn to appreciate Bern's view. I don't think she had that with her old girlfriend, and the cheating in that case was merely an excuse to end what was already over.
Called it!
Edit: You're right, LordKaT, that is a mite suspicious.
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What do you have planned for me...should I be terrified?
Well, considering you are a lesbian, I don't think you are particularly interested in male fan service, are you?
Exactly! I don't want it!
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If I were having a conversation with myself playing one of my characters in here, that would be pretty darn lame. I'm okay with doing it if someone else plays them, though!
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Obligatory "Blackbird is the Thin Man" post.
It all fits. We don't know mutch about Blackbird - We don't know much aubout the Thin Man -> Perfect match.
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It all fits. We don't know much about Hans...
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It all fits. We don't know much about Hans...
Dang, you found out, why I don't have a truth thread ..
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I wonder what I'd do if I had the Thin Man's power. Then again, the Thin Man may not be that particularly powerful at all. After all, Dr. Frankenstein could hardly have said to have any superpowers, yet he created an extremely powerful monster (with a heart of gold, but still!)
Anyone else think that the assumption that the Thin Man is as powerful or more so than his creations may be a false one?
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Anyone else think that the assumption that the Thin Man is as powerful or more so than his creations may be a false one?
I'm pretty shure, the Thin Man is not a fighter as good as Mary. He is a better mage with more knowledge about body modificating magic, though.
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Well clearly he knows about the magic necessary to create minions, but if he was cornered, would he be able to defend himself?
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Well clearly he knows about the magic necessary to create minions, but if he was cornered, would he be able to defend himself?
You won't get more than a "we don't know" here. I always imagined him to be more the intellectual type than a sportsman, but that can be totally wrong, of course.
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Didn't expect that coming,BlackBird(BlackHawk would be better),I wonder if we will see her coming in next chapters,I want to see May being jealous when Bern would be feeling fascinated again for that woman.
Seeing May nature she shouldn't be feeling jealous at all,but really that's one feeling what I want to see May experience in future chapters somehow,that would really show she is changing...
And my other wish is to see Crest being raped by some muscle man,for comical effect only ;)
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Not to derail the topic of discussion, but ...
Geez Bern, way to pass up on a lesbian threesome. You could've had your cake and eaten it too!
It could have been ...
B: "My girlfriend ... and my secret crush??"
C: "Bernadette, ah--no, I didn't want you to find out this way!!"
B: "Nevermind that ... room for one more?"
BOW CHIKA WOW WOW
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Didn't expect that coming,BlackBird(BlackHawk would be better),I wonder if we will see her coming in next chapters,I want to see May being jealous when Bern would be feeling fascinated again for that woman.
I guess, Maytag would like to have a threesome.
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I had both really hoped & really dreaded revelations of Bern's inner self during this latest chapter. I really admire Bernadette and was worried that like other characters I've admired it'd turn out that her seemingly better qualities would simply be a distracting veneer from some real ugliness underneath. I know it makes for more exciting drama when a seemingly nice guy suddenly pulls back the mask and goes "Ah HAH! And you all thought I was your sappy friend. Behold! I have been pulling the strings of {insert dastardly deeds & villainous monologue here}." I really like how Bernadette has turned out to be flawed but still feels like her self. She didn't take the moral high ground and try to leverage this new, irrefutable (as far as we know) proof to force May to make some kind of penance. She only slapped Suspiria when I bet she could have punched her hard enough to do real damage.
I guess the big question I have now though is how Bern & May will work this new knowledge into their relationship. Bern's obviously got a big enough heart to forgive these past infidelities but I doubt she has it in her to jump into threesomes with her lover just yet. Bern strikes me as the kind of girl who needs to feel an emotional connection with someone before she can feel comfortable being intimate whereas May is so into the excitement of new sexual encounters that her requirements are, in a sense, probably much lower. Will Bern be able to let May openly seek out & bed other people? I mean it's one thing to forgive the past & another to help lay the ground work for this being the norm for the future... It just seems a huge leap forward from "yes, people can draw you naked for the sake of art" to "yeah, you can totally bang that hot guy there.. and his girlfriend.. and their kinky roommate.. and their pet goat. I mean so long as you're sure the goat is into it."
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That stick being her desire for monogamy? Sorry, but if that's the case I'd rather that she lodge it up even further - May has been doing the wrong thing for a long time, and its high time that she faced the music. Not that she will, from the looks of things.
Agreed. I'm glad they won't be splitting up, but it seems as though Bern has adopted some sort of "all's well that ends well" philosophy for being cheated on for years and holding her tongue about it the whole time. If Bern is going to just forgive and forget just like that, it's kind if a kick in the balls to everyone who's defended Bern's views as they were presented to us all these years. I never really thought Brion would actually grant one side of that argument a victory. Not that I think it was his intention to, but still... :-\
Ah, I'm probably just jumping to conclusions. We'll see where it goes.
The stick up Bern's arse tends to be a bit possessive. Obviously, the vast majority of the community of earth believe a monogamy and discretion is the way to go and will simply believe that Maytag needs to compromise her beliefs to conform with Bern's.
;D
After all, Dr. Frankenstein could hardly have said to have any superpowers, yet he created an extremely powerful monster (with a heart of gold, but still!)
Yeah, but as I've covered: magic is not science. To perform magic experiments on people, you would presumably have to be a sorcerer. To perform biological experiments you just need to be smart enough to do them (and have the equipment). Intelligence and magical proficiency are two very different things, I would think.
Well clearly he knows about the magic necessary to create minions, but if he was cornered, would he be able to defend himself?
Seraph was also a magic researcher, and he was shooting pillars of flames and firing off piercing shards. Unless the Thin Man just never bothered to meditate up some offensive spells, odds are he can defend himself. Even Regina could defend herself against imaginary Moss.
And my other wish is to see Crest being raped by some muscle man,for comical effect only
Insert obligatory "rape is never funny" rant here.
She didn't take the moral high ground and try to leverage this new, irrefutable (as far as we know) proof to force May to make some kind of penance. She only slapped Suspiria when I bet she could have punched her hard enough to do real damage.
How is that not taking the moral high ground? Bernadette is on the Everest of moral high grounds. She is currently on such high moral ground that she could stab Glyph in the back of the head and she would only be back on even ground with everyone else.
Will Bern be able to let May openly seek out & bed other people?
Words cannot express the sheer levels of rage this would produce in me. Crest, May, and Bern could drop dead of heart attacks and the comic could be about Susperia, and that would still be more likely to keep me reading.
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And my other wish is to see Crest being raped by some muscle man,for comical effect only
Insert obligatory "rape is never funny" rant here.
[/quote]
Never funny? Are we living on the same planet?
I DISPUTE YOUR CLAIM WITH YE LINK!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqeM-5uLqOg
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Yeah, but as I've covered: magic is not science.
I've always agree with Arthur C. Clarke that sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. So I don't really see that big a difference between Frankenstein's technology and The Thin Man's magic. Especially since magic essentially is the substitute for a lot of technology in the Flipsideverse.rape is never funny...unless you're raping a clown
Fixed that for ya ^_^
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Is the next chapter where crest discover's he's gay?
Yes. And it's also the chapter Crest learns he can't get any on that side of the fence, either.
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Obligatory "Blackbird is the Thin Man" post.
It all fits. We don't know mutch about Blackbird - We don't know much aubout the Thin Man -> Perfect match.
Actually, I think Blackbird was one of The Thin Man's first projects. His attempt was to clone her 15 times, then stick her and all the clones into a pie.
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So Bern joined the Steel Vipers to get with Blackbird and took Clairen as a conselation prize while still hoping to get together with Blackbird... and SHE felt betrayed when Clairen turned out to be doing the same thing and simply got there first?!
I think this is one of the first cracks we've seen in Bern's moral high-ground.
...more to the point, how does this explain why she's stayed with Maytag, despite the cheating and all the indications she's given over time of wanting Maytag to be with her only?
All in good time the answers will come as always.
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"Moral high-ground"? I just don't see it.
Also, she'd like Maytag to be with her exclusively, but she loves Maytag, so the fact that Maytag is with her is enough. And I think she knew Maytag would realize this, and didn't want to force it on her.
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I've always agree with Arthur C. Clarke that sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. So I don't really see that big a difference between Frankenstein's technology and The Thin Man's magic. Especially since magic essentially is the substitute for a lot of technology in the Flipsideverse.
True, but again, only magic items are the substitute for technology in Flipside. Frankenstein used a machine to bring his monster to life, he did not fire lightning from his fingers into the bolts on its neck. To preform magic experiments, you need to be a sorcerer like Seraph was. The Thin Man is preforming magic experiments, so he can use magic. Even Regina, the worst mage in Flipside, could defend herself. If the Thin Man can't defend himself, then he is either a very shitty sorcerer or he's known since he started practicing sorcery that he wanted to experiment on people and never bothered magically meditating himself up any offensive spells at all.
...Italics. >.>
Actually, I think Blackbird was one of The Thin Man's first projects. His attempt was to clone her 15 times, then stick her and all the clones into a pie.
I thought it was four and twenty...
So Bern joined the Steel Vipers to get with Blackbird and took Clairen as a conselation prize while still hoping to get together with Blackbird...
No, she was "already in a relationship" with Clairen when she joined the gang. She pined for Blackbird in secret, but had apparently no intention of actually perusing her. Then she found her girlfriend in the arms of the woman she wanted more, and felt betrayed by them. Perfectly acceptable. Her girlfriend cheated on her while Blackbird slept with her girlfriend. Both are acts of betrayal. No cracks.
"Moral high-ground"? I just don't see it.
She just revealed that she's known for years that May is doing something they both think is wrong, and she's just forgiving her just like that. She's had her privacy violated terribly twice in the last hour, and it's been met only with a smack and a threat. Then she guilted the two sorcerers, further shaming them into lower moral high ground. Bern currently looks like a saint compared to everyone in there.
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"Moral high-ground"? I just don't see it.
She just revealed that she's known for years that May is doing something they both think is wrong, and she's just forgiving her just like that. She's had her privacy violated terribly twice in the last hour, and it's been met only with a smack and a threat. Then she guilted the two sorcerers, further shaming them into lower moral high ground. Bern currently looks like a saint compared to everyone in there.
Well if we look at this like that,indeed she is almost saint.
But indeed is it really fair to compare what Bern did longing for her female gang leader,but not doing anything in that direction,and that's why she didn't tell May,cause she was ashamed by her actions,with May cheating on her for these 3 years whenever she met someone interesting to have sex with(like Umber we know about).
Really love is strange,at least that's explains Bern really loves May,and she didn't love Clairen for real.
Also I know if May would see Bern with another women which Bern would be attracted for,she would immediately strip and would join them in threesome,but I want May to be feeling jealous over Bern for real,I don't know if such big change in her way of thinking is possible,but like I said I would love to see that happen,at least in my opinion being in love with someone you have to be a little possesive about your partner at least a little to show her that you care.
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Hmm.
I'm not sure if I like this or not. Bern isn't just going to go: "May, I'm actually fine with you, and me, fucking many different people in our relationship, I was just ashamed," in the next page, is she?
That would, sort of... Not be fun. For me.
And if we're talking moral high-grounds here, Crest's pretty high up himself. (Or does he count?) Yes, he cheated in poker, but he did that so help his mom! Just how sweet isn't that? Bern's monogamous views are shamed infront of Crest!
Ahem.
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And if we're talking moral high-grounds here, Crest's pretty high up himself. (Or does he count?) Yes, he cheated in poker, but he did that so help his mom! Just how sweet isn't that? Bern's monogamous views are shamed infront of Crest!
Apples and oranges... That is all.
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And if we're talking moral high-grounds here, Crest's pretty high up himself. (Or does he count?) Yes, he cheated in poker, but he did that so help his mom! Just how sweet isn't that? Bern's monogamous views are shamed infront of Crest!
Apples and oranges... That is all.
I'm afraid I don't understand this expression.
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Oh I'm sorry.
They're two completely different kinds of morals, it's hard to put Crest's moral level up against Bern's based on those two examples because they're so different.
Hence apples and oranges(2 very different things)
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Oh, I see. ^^
I wasn't really serious about that, though. >_> Read it with a grain of salt.
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Oh >.>; the lack of sleep is making it hard to pull context <.<;
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Hmm.
I'm not sure if I like this or not. Bern isn't just going to go: "May, I'm actually fine with you, and me, fucking many different people in our relationship, I was just ashamed," in the next page, is she?
That would, sort of... Not be fun. For me.
And if we're talking moral high-grounds here, Crest's pretty high up himself. (Or does he count?) Yes, he cheated in poker, but he did that so help his mom! Just how sweet isn't that? Bern's monogamous views are shamed infront of Crest!
Ahem.
What are you getting so worked up about? Noboby is saying that Crest is morally superiour to Bernedette. Far from it in fact. Crest is kind of a pussy. ;)
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Well, Crest has a nice sense of duty (i.e. take care of your mom) and he's stepped in front of danger to protect Maytag on at least two occassions. He was also sickened by Maytag's betrayal of her boyfriend (Bernadette) due to a previous experience with a cheating girlfriend of his own. However, one of his downfalls is that he looks upon most women as sex objects, which is why he's often tongue tied around them. This might be explained by his mother who appears to have a grand desire to see her son have sex with many girls and give her lots of grandchildren.
(http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic/com-flipint-04-05.gif)
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True, but again, only magic items are the substitute for technology in Flipside. And lots more italics!
Hardly. What about say...biotic implants? Or manipulation of DNA? That would be an example of magic through technology. Extremely unlikely, it may seem, but if it were possible in the future, how would that only cover the magic "items"? If technology rises to the level where we can essentially force ourselves as a species to evolve, I think this would be seen by our primitive (by comparison) technology as magic.
And now I just thought of the awesome possibility that Iscariot is Earth...but thousands of years from now.
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I don't know if such big change in her way of thinking is possible
I imagine so. If Bern fell in love with someone else and started paying more attention to this new girl than Bern, May might become frustrated by it. This might be more potent if it looked like Bern was going to leave May. Bern having sex I'm sure she wouldn't bat an eye at, but the threat of losing Bern's love? Hmm...
Hardly. What about say...biotic implants?
Not familiar with the term.
Or manipulation of DNA?
You mean that thing we do with machines?
That would be an example of magic through technology.
Right. Technology. Machines (items) which we use to do things (magic). We're not doing it, the machines are.
Extremely unlikely, it may seem, but if it were possible in the future, how would that only cover the magic "items"?
Uhh, are we doing this with our hands and nothing else? Are we pointing at the DNA and making it do stuff? No, we'd be using machines to do it. Machines are items. Thus: Technology = magic items.
If technology rises to the level where we can essentially force ourselves as a species to evolve, I think this would be seen by our primitive (by comparison) technology as magic.
Yes. We sure would have some magic machines to help us do that. Those items we would use to perform miracles sure would be magical.
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Alright, fine, I give up. Apparently italics make you right, so fine, you win.
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i love this chapter. Theres so much suspense but some of the stuff in this book you dont know about unless you read book 0.
im dying to know what sephira and crest are doing when she asks him to go into her bedroom and sit with her. i doubt they only talked
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Oh, don't be like that Admiral. I was just using italics to stress certain words. That's what they're there for. I'm not out to prove you wrong, I'm out to explain my views (which happen to be opposed to yours in this case). The last thing I want is for someone to agree with me just to shut me up.
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i love this chapter. Theres so much suspense but some of the stuff in this book you dont know about unless you read book 0.
im dying to know what sephira and crest are doing when she asks him to go into her bedroom and sit with her. i doubt they only talked
Personally I think Suspira might have come onto him and, despite the opportunity to end his virginity, Crest realised it was probably out of grief, confusion and a need for comfort so refused her advances... Probably pissing her off quite a bit.
I guess they've all been hanging out for 3-4 days, but who knows when Brion will reveal the truth of that bedroom incident. Crest and Suspira certainly didn't seem to be warming up to each other an awful lot in the carriage.
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The last thing I want is for someone to agree with me just to shut me up.
I said you won. I never said you were right, I just gave up. Your last post irked me because you didn't seem to understand what I was saying at all, but kept italicizing things that were hardly relevant.
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Well at least you can agree to disagree *shrug*
But hey! Isn't Flipside a great comic? :P
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It has its moments.
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And now I just thought of the awesome possibility that Iscariot is Earth...but thousands of years from now.
Sorry dude, that will not be the case. To be honest I think that idea is kind of cliche.
We sure would have some magic machines to help us do that. Those items we would use to perform miracles sure would be magical.
I think you're probably using the wrong word here. I don't think the word technology always means there are machines involved. Perhaps a better word would be tools. Afterall, even rubbing two sticks together could be seen as a primitive form of technology.
I don't think what makes stuff magic necessarily has anything to do with tools, magic basically just means anything supernatural. That's why advanced technology would be indistinguishable to primitive people from magic. Also, just because no tools are used doesn't necessarily mean that the feats performed are "supernatural," per se. It could just be that natural laws work differently on the world of Flipside. You'll probably see this topic come up in the comic, at some point.
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Sorry dude, that will not be the case. To be honest I think that idea is kind of cliche.
Ha, no apology needed. I just thought it was fun to think about. And whether or not it would or would not be the case, I would find it weird if anyone in comic actually knew it.
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I said you won. I never said you were right, I just gave up. Your last post irked me because you didn't seem to understand what I was saying at all, but kept italicizing things that were hardly relevant.
Yes, I know what you meant. That's why I said I didn't want you to agree with me to shut me up. Okay, so you didn't actually agree with me, but...uhh...you get my point. If you don't think I'm understanding you, then by all means reword your stance. For all I know you're right and I'm completely missing the point. XD
I think you're probably using the wrong word here. I don't think the word technology always means there are machines involved. Perhaps a better word would be tools. Afterall, even rubbing two sticks together could be seen as a primitive form of technology.
I guess I was just thinking of technology that would seem like magic to us. We can figure out how a typewriter works by looking at its parts and studying it, for example, but no matter how long you stare at a computer you'll never really know what its parts do unless you have preexisting knowledge of computers. When it gets to that point, it will seem like magic to people who don't understand. That kind of technology is generally machines, but you're right, in some cases it's just tools. Still, those are items, which is what I was getting at. It's the technology itself that would be indistinguishable from magic, thus my comparison to magic items. Just like normal people need magic items to do anything out of the ordinary in Flipside, we need tools (from an advanced computer to a simple turkey baster) to do anything "magical". Sorcerers, on the other hand can perform magic without tools of any kind. That's the one thing technology will never be able to replicate, which was all I was trying to say. ^_^;
Anyways, it just occurred to me that Bern said she was willing to make sacrifices "like the drawing". So she probably won't be throwing May to the swingers clubs any time soon.
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So Maytag and Bernedette are having a conversation...
and it's going unexpectedly :'(.
I hate to see them fight... :(
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i don't understand what the hell is going on. Someone wake me up when Bern starts to make sense.
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i don't understand what the hell is going on. Someone wake me up when Bern starts to make sense.
Yeah. It might be a few more strips before she actually tells us what's been going on... :-\
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I think Bern didn't realized the extent of Maytag's cheating, and thought she had come completely clean, while Maytag knows how much she's held back still, and didn't realize Bern was being sincere.
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Sorry dude, that will not be the case. To be honest I think that idea is kind of cliche.
Right. We're still possible for my English-Speaking Alien Predecessor theory, right?
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Maybe Bern is doing this specialy,cause if she will demote herself in terms of honesty comparing to May in her mind she can easy forgive her cheating habits,and be happy in love again.
But indeed Bern logic here is somekind strange,at some point her good will creeps me out,despite I love her character.
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Seriously. I've got to agree with the lot of you. I don't understand what the hell Bern is talking about.
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Seriously. I've got to agree with the lot of you. I don't understand what the hell Bern is talking about.
It's a good tactic of the "leave them wanting more" variety and unique to online comics...
Have the strip end in the middle of a paragraph of dialouge :D!
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I've reworded some of the dialog in this page, check out the modified version and see if it's less confusing.
It was brought to my attention by a few friends that, the way I had worded the dialog, it sounded like Bern was saying that she thought her lie about Blackbird was worse than May's lies about cheating. And that was definitely not my intention, I can see how if it sounded that way, it wouldn't make any sense.
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Maytag: "Haven't I... Haven't I hurt you?"
And with that ladies and gentlemen, we will delve into the game I like to call.
"Guess Bern's April Fool's Answer To Maytag!!"
Winner will get a used gift card to Red Lobster *looks at Brion's Av* .... I mean, Olive Garden.
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i don't understand what the hell is going on. Someone wake me up when Bern starts to make sense.
Yeah. It might be a few more strips before she actually tells us what's been going on... :-\
I think Bern *is* making sense, if you look at things from her wievpoint. Page 25, panel 3. Then, panel 5. She *knows* perfectly how Maytag is, and Maytag told herself about it right from the beguining. Maytag (tried to) hide from her the fact that she had cheated on her, but never, ever, did hide the fact that she was prone to it; she didn' hide how she *really* is.
On the other hand, Bern has always kept front after front, hiding all the things she saw of herself as flaws (no matter how minor) behind a "look how flawless I am" facade. I'm NOT dising Bern, I'm expresing her wievpoint; it's her the one thinking that. In other words, Bern thinks that May has lied about how she was what she was, but she has kept hidden what she was to begin with.
I would ask here "am in the right track, Mr. Lobster?" but I have a feeling that in the next few comics we'll know for sure :)
edit: lo and behold, as I hit "submit" I find Brion has posted a corrected version that, more or less, confirms my opinion. Call t beguinner's luck ;)
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Maytag: "Haven't I... Haven't I hurt you?"
And with that ladies and gentlemen, we will delve into the game I like to call.
"Guess Bern's April Fool's Answer To Maytag!!"
Winner will get a used gift card to Red Lobster *looks at Brion's Av* .... I mean, Olive Garden.
Bern (taking a sideways quick hidden glance at a partially open piece of luggage that reveals part of a leather harness): "Husss! Not in front of Crest, dear!"
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That makes more sense, Brion. Thanks. Sorry I mistunderstood. Bern is still flooring me with how forgiving she is, though. Her love is limitless to crazy, crazy levels. Seriously. Wow.
Also, is it just me or does Bern just get better and better? It's like, she tries to reveal this secret side of herself where she's not perfect, and in doing so it just makes her look more humble.
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Excuse me for interrupting whatever conversation you might be having here, I haven't read it.
I just want to state my opinion about the current chapter: I don't like the "sappy drama stuff" (no offense) that's been going on in the comic lately. Right now the only thing keeping me from forgetting about this comic is this board.
I personally like the action/horror/suspense parts of the comic a lot more. Some of them are really good, and I would like to see more of that in the future.
Just my opinion as a reader, take it or leave it.
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I fail to see where the big revelation is. Instead of being cheated by the girl she loved and was with at that time, she has been cheated by them both. And not having told this detail makes her feel like a big lyer?
Well, it's unclear if Blackbird knew about bern's feelings. But I doubt that made a difference in the very moment she cought them two. Bern said, she felt betrayed, but is that so different fromm feeling cheated?
IMHO Bern does not feel bad about Maytag, because Maytag never claimed to be honest. About her ferst words to Bernadette implied the contrary of that.
But should Bern really feel that guilty, because she spoke about one girl (Claireen), instead of two (Claireen+Blackbird)?
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Sorry... Flipside is always gonna be more of a hybrid. I'm just a weird guy who likes suspense/action/horror and sappy drama too. So the comic is tailored to someone with my tastes.
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And I wouldn't have it any other way. :-*
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I guess one thing to remember is that Bern was never really in love with Clairen that much. She held a secret crush for Blackbird but she was never in a relationship with her. When she caught Clairen with Blackbird, it wasn't that hard for her to break off the relationship and since she only joined the Steel Vipers because of her infatuation with Blackbird it wasn't that hard for her to quit the gang when that secret crush was... welll... crushed.
Bern is VERY much in love with Maytag, so she has much more to loose by just giving up on Maytag. Ultimately it doesn't seem to matter to her what actions you've lied about as much as how much you've lied. She stated that the thing she loved most about Maytag is her honesty and thats because the thing she hates most about herself is her dishonesty.
Of course, in this case, Bern is making out her less open character and secrets in general to be another brand of dishonesty. Which is true to an extent if you think the person you're talking to should know what you know or has some sort of right to know and intentionally keep that knowledge from them. In this sense, I guess Bern sees May's dishonesty about her sexual relations as a far bigger offense than the sexual relations themselves, but she negates it because she still sees herself as far more dishonest.
Strange, but Bern has always come across as a VERY self-deprecating individual. Possibly because she feels some intense guilt over other actions of her past.
She seems to harbor some sort of guilt over events in her past, and refuses to talk about it.
AND FOR MALKI
Flipside is a story about relationships, sex, and compromise.
It's a romantic fantasy adventure with a lot of action, and a small dose of horror.
Mainly, it's the story of these two women.
(http://www.flipsidecomics.com/new-maybern.gif)
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Malki, if it makes you feel better, count up the number of action/suspense chapters and compare them to the number of romance chapters. I'm pretty sure your preference is winning by a lot. Oh, and without giving anything away, the next storyarc (after this chapter) should have a little something to please you.
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Well the main thing I noticed is that they're headed for Eschelon and Bloody Mary's short story showed that she'd headed that way...
It'd be a bitter sweet deal if they catch up with her and both sorcerers are depleated so Maytag has to fool her into trusting them only for Bern to deal a mercifuly swift death blow to the head.
But now we've got a tonne of groups and individuals to worry about. The Conclave who they have to visit and relate the story to, Some future meeting with the Steel Viper Gang and Blackbird (they have an archer), A future meeting with Dice, Regina, Moss, Ashley, Laura, Grant or Shepherd and of course The Thin Man and his Minions.
Lots of potential and thats only counting the stuff we know let alone the possibilities that Brion is keeping in his pocket.
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Malki, if it makes you feel better, count up the number of action/suspense chapters and compare them to the number of romance chapters.
Who said the two are mutually exclusive? This current chapter has a bit of both.
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Excuse me for interrupting whatever conversation you might be having here, I haven't read it.
I just want to state my opinion about the current chapter: I don't like the "sappy drama stuff" (no offense) that's been going on in the comic lately. Right now the only thing keeping me from forgetting about this comic is this board.
I personally like the action/horror/suspense parts of the comic a lot more. Some of them are really good, and I would like to see more of that in the future.
Just my opinion as a reader, take it or leave it.
Yay for sappy drama! I love me some sappy drama! :P
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Hell yeah. There's been $#!t loads of suspense during the Nagelring spell.
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As for detractors, at least its not the kind of drama that is all about cheating and being vindictive, petty and neurotic (ala- Queer as Folk, or Gossip Girl or Desperate Housewives,) I am so sick of that being the only way that the media discusses relationships. :(
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I think Flipside really has a wonderful blend.
There are some out there that just concentrate on the action and fighting with little or no wonder at the character's relationships and interactions. Even when they do, it's normally a relationship starting during the action rather than an existing one going through the stresses of the action and revelations.
Others are all about the drama and relationships from love triangles, to abortions and resulting guilt, adoptions, misunderstandings and public humiliation. No dual-sword wielding and curtains of daggers, fantastical magick displays and canibal monsters.
Many of them also focus on a single, impending event while flipside focuses on Maytag and Bern's relationship as they experience and endure many events and experiences together.
I'd classify it as Romantic-Adventure
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Flipside is awesome. I have my bookmarked webcomics all sorted by favorite to least favorite, and Flipside is currently 5th out of 55. Around 15 I don't read anymore, though.
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and Flipside is currently 5th out of 55. Around 15 I don't read anymore, though.
Wow I thought I read alot at 28
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Do you think Bill Waterson will ever make an online comic? :-\
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Hell no.
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About as likely as Piers Anthony writing a script for one... Oh wait he did *lol*
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IS IT JUST ME OR DID THE FLIPSIDE WEBSITE GO DOWN?
Are you messing around with things for April Fools Brion?
You clicked the wrong button, didn't you. Naughty *lol*
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Naughty, naughty Brion ;P
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Malki, if it makes you feel better, count up the number of action/suspense chapters and compare them to the number of romance chapters. I'm pretty sure your preference is winning by a lot. Oh, and without giving anything away, the next storyarc (after this chapter) should have a little something to please you.
That's pretty much the reason I read through the whole thing in the first place :)
And yay! Action time ;D
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Action time is always nice,of course if it will be gory ;)
Somehow I would want to see Mary story having an end,meaning that bandage face lady and her two black knights fighting to dead with Mary.
Is there an explanation how she got that scar of her in book 0?
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So for whatever reason I just considered people ultimately being the opposite of what they were initially. You know, the flipside of things. That'd be weird and very confusing.
The amusing thing is that Bern's flipside is even more Bern. I mean, her "big secret" turns out to be that she has kept secret some feelings of hers that some people could find objectionable, while keeping a front of not having such feelings. Sounds... familiar?
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That's pretty much the reason I read through the whole thing in the first place :)
And yay! Action time ;D
Malki don't forget about the comic! At least don't forget about the forum!
And jeez-get in touch with your feminine side wouldja!? =P
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Yeah. Not everything is violence and bloodshed! ;)
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GASP! No way! Is--is Maytag actually feeling GUILTY about something? :o This is the gal who's free to do what she wants sexually, remember. Is it possible she's starting to see Bern's side of the relationship they have? Say it ain't so!! :o
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I think she's always felt guilty, but more so about falling in love in the first place. This is something different.
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Maytag hates to hurt her friends and the people she loves or see them hurt. She's felt like she's been hurting Bern for a long time and felt incredible guilt over it for quite a while. She's angry that Bern is actually putting herself down in the moment when she should have every right to feel betrayed and horrified by Maytag's lies and promiscuity. Just as she wanted Moss to direct all his insults and put-downs at Maytag herself rather than her friends, she's appaled at Bern putting herself down as being lower than Maytag when Maytag has constantly aspired to become as caring, humble and unselfish as she sees Bern to be.
In a sense, I guess Maytag almost wants to be punished and berated for her behaviour because she feels she deserves it and here's Bern punishing herself instead.
I guess another thing to remember is that we've constantly thought of Bern as someone who would be horrified by cheating and now she's shown that Clairen's cheating was only a small catalyst that caused a breakup she was headed for anyway. I guess the other thing to remember is that Bern's mother was a whore and she lived in a whore house for much of her young live, so while she's possessive of Maytag and wants their intimacy to be something special and unique between then, she's probably far less phased by the act than most would be.
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RE: Qtalda
Well, I think that she's lying for starters. It's just like someone in power to make up some elaborate excuse to not help.
It's her attitude that makes me not trust her. I can't imagine a good person hearing Mary's story and not being moved by it. She's dysfunctional. :/
I think Qtalda's relation of the facts was accurate. We see in the Bloody Mary "You Are All My Food" sidestory that she's essentially recovered from the "bloodlust" compulsion. When she was first "created", she would get so hungry that she would pass out and wake up surrounded by human remains. At the end, she experiments with animals, poisoned corpses and regular food without passing into a state of madness. And when she, umm, finds new food, it's a purely rational decision on her part. :o
But, her body has been changed to only digest freshly killed human meat. She can't do anything about that, but she is at least possessed of her own free will. Personally, I see a great future for The Cannibal Avenger, if she can find a big city with a really serious crime problem.
Rick R.
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GASP! No way! Is--is Maytag actually feeling GUILTY about something?
I think Maytag feels guilty about of lot of stuff. That's why she wears the suit. In her mind, it frees her from personal responsibility.
It's not a clean division, of course. Sometimes, she's able to act without remorse when the suit is off (sexual intimacy, the nude drawing).
Other times, she is quite remorseful when the suit is on. Look at the date with Crest in chapter 5, for example. Initially, it's Maytag the Jester, sexually free and without a care in the world.
But the suit pretty much _comes off_ at the end of this page:
http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=214
when "Maytag the Woman" begins to realize the magnitude of her failures. I don't think it's coincidence that the next time we see Maytag, she is... exposed:
http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=223
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I don't think Maytag's feelings should come as a surprise to anyone, especially with everything she's said and that whole heart to heart with Crest she had early on.
And come on, I still wanna see Bern duke it out with Suspiria.
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http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=756
http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=346
Are memory-reading/memory-erasing the same "deal" basically? I mean, if most sorcerer's (with their lack of brain know-how) can read memories, are they also able to erase them, too? OR IS SHEPARD THE THIN MAN WTF. Except the part where he's kinda chubby... and actually in the Phalanx.
...
Just curious.
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@Eeveelover: We've asked the same question in here. They stated that the knowledge to alter memories isn't available because experiments on living subjects are forbidden. Note that they also said that any spells on the human brain were normally only temporary but Shepherd's is permanent which means his spell caused physical change to Derrick. That means, either Qtalda is lying about the lack of technology or the fading of spells on the mind, Shepherd is either linked to or is The Thin Man or Shepherd is from some other group who also has the knowledge.
Notice also that Shepherd didn't use a spellword to erase the memories.
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APRIL FOOLS = LEGENDARY!
I was a little disappointed at the simple comic page joke, but when I saw it coupled with the image in the front page and Ash's corner... Hell yeah!
God! I loved those movies! There's one for the next Intermission... Bloody Mary VS Ash
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Oh my god, Bruce Campbell's wisdom strikes fear into the hearts of.... the hearts of... everyone, I guess.
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Don't worry Baby. I'll only be rough with you in bed.
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It's cool. Eating isn't cheating.
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Don't worry Baby. I'll only be rough with you in bed.
Alright, that one wasn't me.
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Ha I say! HAHAH!
On a side note I went to vote a the TWC ranking for Flipside jumped up to #2! (it was like 10 yesterday!)
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Well the list does reset every month, so that's probably because of Bruce Campbell.
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That was so funny! :D
But where is that quote from? ???
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Ok, fine!! I asked what Bern's April Fool's response would be. I never questioned what drawing style she'd take the form of.
Instead of being made a fool and working to avoid that, I get made to feel like I've just been sold for food stamps. I feel so cheap. LOL
That's an amazing trick to pull, Brion. :-)
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*lol* I didn't even think of this at the time, but I love how Brion remembered that Maytag is still missing her left arm in the page.
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[lie]I noticed it the whole time.[/lie]
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... Oh Bern.
*Sniffle*
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Really,it was so touching...
"(...)maybe you'd settle for plain old,boring Bernadette."
Anytime ^^
But I'm a guy so rather never ;)
Really making her character better and better with every page,I wonder what final pages of this chapter will bring.
Edit:
Since I don't remember,and somehow I became curious about it.
Did May become jester and had her suit made after she started going out with Bern?
Or she played as jester before starting relationship with her?
Cause if she became jester after meeting with Bern as somekind of other free personality in which she could be like she wants to be,well it's rather significant,one normal May for Bern and other "sexual free" for herself.
If it was answered then sorry for asking ;)
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Awwww, no update of the April Fools area yet.
Oh and Awwww at Bern's statements *lol*
Yeah, there's a reasonable age difference between them. Maytag=19/20 and Bern25/26. When they met Maytag=16 and Bern=22.
But here's the real thing. IS this just a phase of Maytag's life? Maytag stated back on the bridge before Bloody Mary took her that there were still things she wanted to do but that maybe she'd had enough adventure and giving up a few things would be worth it for Bern. But I still question if a lot of that was a phase that she had to get out of her system and live or a part of who she really is. Many people love football when they're young but it's just a phase for some of them while others go on to play in local clubs, follow the TV games, teach their kids and even coach, making football a great part of their lives even past the age that they can play anymore despite maybe never hitting big leagues.
EDIT: not that it's anything significant, but Maytag had a glove or band around her right arm on the bridge: http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=411
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I like this chapter. It's so sweet. :-*
And Maytag gives great sideboob! :D
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Geez, and I thought Maytag was the promiscuous one. ::) Look, Bern, your partner had done just about anything she wanted with anybody sexually, and you've known about it all of this time? :o And you're okay with that? :o It's like a wife that knew her husband was fooling around, but looked the other way because he'd eventually "get it out of his system", and finally settle down for her. I don't know about Bern, but if I'm completely devoted to my girlfriend/fiance/wife, I sure as heck would want her to be devoted to me. If she can't, then I wouldn't want her to be with me. But--if you want to be a doormat, then it's your call... ::)
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I just remembered that they're having this conversation in front of everyone else.
Awkward!
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SAGG, you miss one point, a very important one: Bern knew right from the beguining about May's inclinations, but willingly started a relationship knowing that. Is NOT the same as a wife that discovers that her spouse she thought loyal is really cheating. Is like if you marry someone you know to be the son of a Caliph; you already know he might marry other women. (I blame Sierra for that, BTW). It's not the same as if you discovered it well after the wedding. On that, I speak from experience, BTW.
Akashai, yep, they are probably counting Crest as "one in the know", but even so, I guess that only the urgency of telling each other those things before the magic moment passes is making them speak in front of that arrogant brat of Iverness and that perverted pig of Glyph. Unless Bern is planing to simply beat the brat to a pulp as soon as May is no longer crying, and so what she hears now would be of no consequence :D (hey, one can dream. I know I would, and I'm a Good fay...)
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Damn, Brion.
I love you.
IN THE NON CREEPY WAY.
Well I love him in the creepy sexual fetish "going to tape you with a tire iron and a six pack of dr pepper" kind of way.
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Oh, man. This page. I don't have words.
I... I love you Bern. ;^;
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Hmm, guess I was wrong. It's so weird that she knew about this the whole time.
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I dunno. I've had the feeling that she knew the entire time. There were subtle hints.
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I dunno. I've had the feeling that she knew the entire time. There were subtle hints.
Yah, same here.
In regards to the newest page: AAAAAAWWWWWWWWH~ Bern!!! :-*
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Wow.. this was so touching. It's all the more poignant, I think, when the revelation is compounded by the reader's knowledge that this is not some silly phase Maytag is going through. It's part of who she is - as evidenced by her own admission on the beginning of the journey that her love for Bern was enough to inspire her to cut off a piece of herself. But that's got to weigh down May the longer she tries to keep it up.. and while Bern's clearly been willing to wait even her patience is going to have it's limits. Something is going to have to give here. I don't like using the word "compromise" because it implies that both partners are sacrificing something in relative equal measure. In this situation I don't really see that kind of "compromise." Either Bern will have to fundamentally change her feelings/attitudes towards sexuality or Maytag will have to. Granted there's certainly a spectrum of sexual behaviors and one could envision a situation where after one particular viewpoint gets it's way the person who "won" concedes something. For instance, if the relationship remains "closed" then Bern agrees to be even more open to new ideas in how they express their sexuality with each other to help keep May from feeling unsatisfied. Or in the event that May's preference "wins" & the relationship becomes "open" then they only include as a third a partner(s) someone/persons that Bern feels emotionally attached to/trusts enough to be comfortable being intimate with. But all these scenarios - in my mind at least - are compromises that stem from an original decision that isn't one. The relationship is open or it's closed. I just don't see a middle ground there... :\
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Bern is awesome.
...No further comment.
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Damn, Brion.
I love you.
IN THE NON CREEPY WAY.
Well I love him in the creepy sexual fetish "going to tape you with a tire iron and a six pack of dr pepper" kind of way.
Me too, LordKat, me too.
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Wow.. this was so touching. It's all the more poignant, I think, when the revelation is compounded by the reader's knowledge that this is not some silly phase Maytag is going through. It's part of who she is - as evidenced by her own admission on the beginning of the journey that her love for Bern was enough to inspire her to cut off a piece of herself. But that's got to weigh down May the longer she tries to keep it up.. and while Bern's clearly been willing to wait even her patience is going to have it's limits. Something is going to have to give here. I don't like using the word "compromise" because it implies that both partners are sacrificing something in relative equal measure. In this situation I don't really see that kind of "compromise." Either Bern will have to fundamentally change her feelings/attitudes towards sexuality or Maytag will have to. Granted there's certainly a spectrum of sexual behaviors and one could envision a situation where after one particular viewpoint gets it's way the person who "won" concedes something. For instance, if the relationship remains "closed" then Bern agrees to be even more open to new ideas in how they express their sexuality with each other to help keep May from feeling unsatisfied. Or in the event that May's preference "wins" & the relationship becomes "open" then they only include as a third a partner(s) someone/persons that Bern feels emotionally attached to/trusts enough to be comfortable being intimate with. But all these scenarios - in my mind at least - are compromises that stem from an original decision that isn't one. The relationship is open or it's closed. I just don't see a middle ground there... :\
If you read the last panel again, I think that Bern knows its not a phase that Maytag is going through, I think she knows its part of who she is. During the entire last panel speech, she refers to a...uh...before fact? She says, 'I thought' or 'I thought you were.' Everything about the phase as she first say, is a pass-tense, and I think she did come to realize that free sex is just Maytag's nature.
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*heh* She used the same reading trick in the whore house to keep her mind of the goings on there.
This whole thing is just going too well. I'm waiting for the gottcha. Something to spoil the joy and relief at all this. The main one that hits me is that Bern may have an expectation for all Maytag's adventurous behaviour to be over now that its out in the open to discuss. Which might not be too hard since May has already sworn to not cheat on her (or at least, do anything to make her happy).
Heck, it could just as easily end with Glyph crashing the carriage after now watching where he's going while listening to Bern.
P.S. is it just me or did that "I just met you to early in life" statement hit Suspira and Crest a little oddly. Maybe something to do with their little bedroom visit.
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P.S. is it just me or did that "I just met you to early in life" statement hit Suspira and Crest a little oddly. Maybe something to do with their little bedroom visit.
I rather think that they know about May nature more than Bern,and they know she will not change to monogamy even if 100 years passed...
I'm rather waiting now for May saying that to Bern,she finnaly should be honest with her,and tell her everything and what to expect in future.
But indeed if it was for Crest/Suspiria bedroom moment oddness,I wouldn't mind.
Heh Crest setting bomb at last page of this chapter "I'm not a virgin anymore..." with weak voice :P
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Mm. That face May made in the 6th panel there - she doesn't seem happy about what Bern is telling her.
But I understand her. Bernadette is saying that her wanting to have sex with others is just a phase, while Maytag probably thinks it's a part of -her- and always will be.
I can totally relate. Everyone keeps telling me that me not wanting children is just a phase, while I'm sure that getting children EVER is going to ruin my life. It's like a slap in the face to hear stuff like that.
So while I still think Bern is the loveliest thing ever, I feel for May. What's going to happen next?
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Hard to say. While I tend to agree that this is possibly more than a phase for Maytag we can also recall that she was once a complete parasite, stealing and cheating at everything. But Maytag overcame that with time and thanks to Bern's influence so it was sort of a phase in the sense that she learned to live without needing it.
Maytag stated, before her capture by Bloody Mary, that maybe she'd had enough fun and despite wanting to do more, she could probably settle down a bit and be satisfied. Thus, this could be the end of a phase in her sexual exploits as she learns to live without needing it... On the other hand it could be argued that unlike Maytag's thieving phase, Bern will need to work hard to flex on this as well, but not necessarily on multiple partners but on other things such as the drawing.
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SAGG, you miss one point, a very important one: Bern knew right from the beguining about May's inclinations, but willingly started a relationship knowing that. Is NOT the same as a wife that discovers that her spouse she thought loyal is really cheating. Is like if you marry someone you know to be the son of a Caliph; you already know he might marry other women. (I blame Sierra for that, BTW). It's not the same as if you discovered it well after the wedding. On that, I speak from experience, BTW.
Akashai, yep, they are probably counting Crest as "one in the know", but even so, I guess that only the urgency of telling each other those things before the magic moment passes is making them speak in front of that arrogant brat of Iverness and that perverted pig of Glyph. Unless Bern is planing to simply beat the brat to a pulp as soon as May is no longer crying, and so what she hears now would be of no consequence :D (hey, one can dream. I know I would, and I'm a Good fay...)
So YOU say. In fact, I think what you just posted is worse. "Well, I know they're gonna cheat on me, but I'm gonna love 'em anyway!" Uh, no thank you... ::)
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No one is asking you to go have a relationship with Maytag. >:(
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Well it seems more like Bern is in denial when she says that May is going through childish phases.
But she's saying that to give May an opportunity to change, I think.
It's kind of an interesting mindset. I've come to realizations where if my significant other went and slept with other people I'd be ok with it as long as I could trust they would come back to me in the end. It's a different kind of trust.
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It's kind of an interesting mindset. I've come to realizations where if my significant other went and slept with other people I'd be ok with it as long as I could trust they would come back to me in the end. It's a different kind of trust.
And an unusual kind at that. I have myself come to the same realization, but with the added request that she informs me of her interest in each new bed companion before she acts on that interest.
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No one is asking you to go have a relationship with Maytag. >:(
Pardon, but is that directed at me? ???
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Everything is directed at you. Now go make us some more pancakes.
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Well it seems more like Bern is in denial when she says that May is going through childish phases.
But she's saying that to give May an opportunity to change, I think.
I don't quite think she's into denial; I'd rather think she knows her perfectly, better than us. I think, she is not implying Maytag's nymphomania it's a "childish phase"; just that, the same that people matures and their tastes change, she hopes May will grow and learn to direct her sex and afection drive only at he, instead of at basically anyone. I mean, c'mon, guys! We do have "outside knowdledge" that this actually happens to be the case with Maytag, and we also know Lady Bernadette is the Great Mistress of the art and science of analysing any situation at a single glance, including people's motivations.
I'd say, Akashayi, that our best bet is that Bern simply deducted correctly that at some point Maytag would have the conversation we know she had with herself on that bridge, right before she was attacked by Mary.
Even more, the events of Solstice and their conversation about the portrait, plus Bern's presence in Kin's fateful fight, armed and fully dressed (if she had just taken her swords and run to help when hearing the fight, she would not be wearing her scarf and cloack; for the looks of it, she was taking a stroll, probably looking for May, maybe even returning from the bridge as this couple has a pechant for bridges!), all those things together maybe, (up to here I'm quite sure; here I'm guesing) just maybe mean that Bern guessed Maytag would be about to take that decission "about any time now".
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SAGG, you miss one point, a very important one: Bern knew right from the beguining about May's inclinations, but willingly started a relationship knowing that. Is NOT the same as a wife that discovers that her spouse she thought loyal is really cheating. Is like if you marry someone you know to be the son of a Caliph; you already know he might marry other women. (I blame Sierra for that, BTW). It's not the same as if you discovered it well after the wedding. On that, I speak from experience, BTW.
So YOU say. In fact, I think what you just posted is worse. "Well, I know they're gonna cheat on me, but I'm gonna love 'em anyway!" Uh, no thank you... ::)
I hope you are talking about Maytag and not about my spouse, or I will beat you to a pulp, son. Know that the Prince of Shapeir has NEVER, EVER cheated upon one of his three wifes. He maybe polygamous (I blame Sierra for that, again!) but he is a thrustworthy hero.
Besides, if you are so uptight regarding unconventional love relationships, what in Hell are you doing reading a saucy comic about a LESBIAN COUPLE?? It seems you are, perhaps, a bit confused. If you need help, uh, ssorting out your feelings, we can help you: my Prince still has room for one more wife (basic math, 4-3=1), and you could fit as that fourth to learn a few things. Oh, in case you are not a real woman, worry not, darling; Silmaria is so similar to classical Greece that the neighbours wouldn't be offended if you scream too much while receiving love ;)
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SAGG, you miss one point, a very important one: Bern knew right from the beguining about May's inclinations, but willingly started a relationship knowing that. Is NOT the same as a wife that discovers that her spouse she thought loyal is really cheating. Is like if you marry someone you know to be the son of a Caliph; you already know he might marry other women. (I blame Sierra for that, BTW). It's not the same as if you discovered it well after the wedding. On that, I speak from experience, BTW.
So YOU say. In fact, I think what you just posted is worse. "Well, I know they're gonna cheat on me, but I'm gonna love 'em anyway!" Uh, no thank you... ::)
I hope you are talking about Maytag and not about my spouse, or I will beat you to a pulp, son. Know that the Prince of Shapeir has NEVER, EVER cheated upon one of his three wifes. He maybe polygamous (I blame Sierra for that, again!) but he is a thrustworthy hero.
Besides, if you are so uptight regarding unconventional love relationships, what in Hell are you doing reading a saucy comic about a LESBIAN COUPLE?? It seems you are, perhaps, a bit confused. If you need help, uh, ssorting out your feelings, we can help you: my Prince still has room for one more wife (basic math, 4-3=1), and you could fit as that fourth to learn a few things. Oh, in case you are not a real woman, worry not, darling; Silmaria is so similar to classical Greece that the neighbours wouldn't be offended if you scream too much while receiving love ;)
That's cute, trying to insult my opinion, which I have a right to give as much as you do yours, while ending it with a smile. Let's get something straight: I'm not talking about any lesbian relationships. I couldn't care less about lesbian relationships. I'm talking about relationships, period. I don't care about who has what wives, husbands, or live in lovers, in whatever fictional story you're talking about. I'm simply talking about a relationship between two people, where one partner's aware of the other partner cheating on them, and looking the other way.
Quite frankly, you should respect other people's opinions, and stop mocking them. What do you think, Brion? Am I out of line, here? ???
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No SAGG, you are not out of line. I think Erana is trying to be cute, (Prince of Shapeir?) but Erena, please cut it out and be more respectful.
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No SAGG, you are not out of line. I think Erana is trying to be cute, (Prince of Shapeir?) but Erena, please cut it out and be more respectful.
Thank you.
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The main one that hits me is that Bern may have an expectation for all Maytag's adventurous behaviour to be over now that its out in the open to discuss.
I just sort of assumed this went without saying. Is it even possible that this isn't the case? I mean, even if she is being forgiving, she's gone on record time and again saying she wants a monogamous relationship, and now she's saying the thought of May cheating on her was painful. Her idea of a compromise is letting May be drawn naked "maybe".
I rather think that they know about May nature more than Bern,and they know she will not change to monogamy even if 100 years passed...
That's a little extreme. Even May says she could change when she's talking to Crest. The question is whether she really wants to or not.
I can totally relate. Everyone keeps telling me that me not wanting children is just a phase, while I'm sure that getting children EVER is going to ruin my life. It's like a slap in the face to hear stuff like that.
It is, but as annoying as it is, people who say things are a phase are often right. The vast majority of women I've met who've had children said they didn't want kids when they were younger but that they were glad to have had them now. All teenagers I've met who were depressed or said they'd be goths/punks/skaters/nerds for life have almost all grown out of it. I'm sure we've all seen relationships that were just phases. Phases happen, even if nobody likes to admit it while it's happening to them.
I don't quite think she's into denial; I'd rather think she knows her perfectly, better than us.
This.
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I can totally relate. Everyone keeps telling me that me not wanting children is just a phase, while I'm sure that getting children EVER is going to ruin my life. It's like a slap in the face to hear stuff like that.
It is, but as annoying as it is, people who say things are a phase are often right. The vast majority of women I've met who've had children said they didn't want kids when they were younger but that they were glad to have had them now. All teenagers I've met who were depressed or said they'd be goths/punks/skaters/nerds for life have almost all grown out of it. I'm sure we've all seen relationships that were just phases. Phases happen, even if nobody likes to admit it while it's happening to them.
Yes, you're right that phases happen, and you're also right that many times, the people saying "oh, you'll grow out of it..." (I had my super-dark goth phase too, when I was 14-16, but I grew out of it) may be right, but that is not the point.
The point is, that it is extremely disrespectful to go tell someone who is (at the moment at least) dedicated to some lifestyle, and tell them "it is just a phase."
[Offtopic]
Similarily, I feel offended about people asking me when I'm going to breed, because (at the moment) I am absolutely sure I will never in my life have children. I dislike children - I don't see anything appealing about pregnancy, childbirth, babies, toddlers, children or bratty teenagers. And I shouldn't be forced to defend this view of mine. Why isn't nobody going around telling the ones that WANT children that "it's just a phase, you'll grow out of it and realize that children are no lovely little angels." [/offtopic]
Yeah, done.
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The point is, that it is extremely disrespectful to go tell someone who is (at the moment at least) dedicated to some lifestyle, and tell them "it is just a phase."
It's only disrespectful if they want to be dedicated. Telling a teenager that their depression is relatively normal for their age and that they'll grow out of it is not disrespectful, it's trying to give them hope. Likewise, May is trying to stop cheating, so telling her it was a phase should be perceived not as an attack on the person she believes herself to be, but as encouragement that she can become the person she's attempting to be.
Why isn't nobody going around telling the ones that WANT children that "it's just a phase, you'll grow out of it and realize that children are no lovely little angels."
I don't mean to offend, but it's for the same reason nobody tells straight people they're going though a phase. It's just seen as normal, so nobody questions it. Wanting a family is the social norm of pretty much every place in the world. When someone (especially a young person, as young people are prone to rebellion) deviates from the norm in ways that have a "large minority" of people with the same views (no desire for children, no fondness for monogamy, ect), those who don't want to accept that this person is going to hold these views permanently instead choose to believe it's just a fad the person got caught up in. Often they are right, but just as often they're just thinking wishfully.
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The point is, that it is extremely disrespectful to go tell someone who is (at the moment at least) dedicated to some lifestyle, and tell them "it is just a phase."
It's only disrespectful if they want to be dedicated. Telling a teenager that their depression is relatively normal for their age and that they'll grow out of it is not disrespectful, it's trying to give them hope. Likewise, May is trying to stop cheating, so telling her it was a phase should be perceived less as an attack on who she believes she is and more as encouragement that she can become who she's trying to be.
Except depression is not a lifestyle. It is a chemical inbalance in your brain.
Similarly I thought Maytag's sexual ways were her 'lifestyle,' her choice from the beginning, not... A chemical imbalance in her brain.
Why isn't nobody going around telling the ones that WANT children that "it's just a phase, you'll grow out of it and realize that children are no lovely little angels."
I don't mean to offend, but it's for the same reason nobody tells straight people they're going though a phase. It's just seen as normal, so nobody questions it. Wanting a family is the social norm of pretty much every place in the world. When someone (especially a young person, as young people are prone to rebellion) deviates from the norm in ways that have a "large minority" of people with the same views (no desire for children, no fondness for monogamy, ect), those who don't want to accept that this person is going to hold these views permanently instead choose to believe it's just a fad they got caught up in. Often they are right, but just as often they're just thinking wishfully.
Indeed, and do you think that is right? Isn't that discrimination similar to racism? (They don't look normal! They have BROWN skin! So let's bash them!)
Nah, that's going a bit overboard, but you get my point. And when is someone old enough for something not to be a 'phase'? When can a person choose their lifestyle and have it respected, without narrow-minded people coming up and telling them 'it's a phase'?
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Except depression is not a lifestyle. It is a chemical inbalance in your brain.
Similarly I thought Maytag's sexual ways were her 'lifestyle,' her choice from the beginning, not... A chemical imbalance in her brain.
Very well. How about smoking, then? She started doing it of her own free will, but now she wants to stop and doesn't know if she can. Many people have a smoking phase, and it's quite unpleasant to end. Of course, the difference between an addiction and a phase is whether it ends on its own or whether you have to force it to end, so it's not a perfect example. Still, as I said, May is attempting to stop, so Bern's words should be thought of as encouragement rather than patronization.
Alternate response: I don't think May is all there in the head, so the depression example works from that point of view. There is something not right about her, and whatever that is may be stabilizing as she ages.
Indeed, and do you think that is right?
Do I think it's alright for me to question views people hold that are different from mine? Yes, of course I do. I think my views are the best in the world. If I didn't, I wouldn't have them. I would have the views I thought were better. :P
So I want children and you don't. I think my desire for children is a good thing, and emotionally it confuses me that you don't want any. At some base level, I want you to want them just because I want them, and I want you to want the things I want. It makes me question my desire for children when people tell me they don't want any and, as you are all too familiar with, having one's goals questioned is annoying. I know intellectually that it's alright for you to have different goals, and I'm totally accepting of that, but I won't begrudge myself the freedom to question why your views on children are different from mine or whether you will continue to feel this way.
So, you know, there's how that mindset works.
And when is someone old enough for something not to be a 'phase'? When can a person choose their lifestyle and have it respected, without narrow-minded people coming up and telling them 'it's a phase'?
Depends on the lifestyle choice. Yours? Probably not until your "biological clock stops ticking" as it were. It'll only get more and more intense until then, too. Especially around the end when people are saying you've got to hurry before you're up sperm creek without a uterus. XD
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Very well. How about smoking, then?
No, I don't get the smoking reference, since I was assuming Maytag didn't want to change her lifestyle. (I totally forgot about the bridge scene.) I'm mostly talking about lifestyles in general, and how annoying it is when people tell you it's a phase.
Still, as I said, May is attempting to stop, so Bern's words should be thought of as encouragement rather than patronization.
All right then, but it's still not like smoking. >_>
I don't think there's anything wrong with May, I just find her a bit immature.
So I want children and you don't. I think my desire for children is a good thing, and emotionally it confuses me that you don't want any. At some base level, I want you to want them just because I want them, and I want you to want the things I want.
But why the heck would you want me to want the things you want? Does it make your life richer if I have children? If yes, why?
And when is someone old enough for something not to be a 'phase'? When can a person choose their lifestyle and have it respected, without narrow-minded people coming up and telling them 'it's a phase'?
Depends on the lifestyle choice. Yours? Probably not until your "biological clock stops ticking" as it were. It'll only get more and more intense until then, too. Especially around the end when people are saying you've got to hurry before you're up sperm creek without a uterus. XD
But that's just it. I'm not a biological machine steered by my urges. (If I were, I'd be tentackle-raping people all the time.) This "biological clock" everyone frets about is in conflict with my utter disgust for pregnancy, and dislike for children, as well as the fact that I have so many siblings and relatives that my genes -will- continue, whether or not I want them to. This is something I'm quite sure won't change, since it's been there for the 20 years that I've lived. Just because it's a socially accepted thing that everyone does/is supposed to do, it doesn't mean you can just change such a big part of yourself to fit into their expectations.
Also, this pregnancy-talk is very offtopic, so perhaps we should make a thread in the debate room to continue this...
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Just claim infertility when someone asks and that'll end the conversation abruptly and awkwardly ;D
See, people with children or who desire children think that you're just misguided. That there's something they see in having and raising children that you don't see. In that sense, they think they're helping you by trying to show or explain to you what you'd be missing out on, and you naturally get narky at having your views and opinions attacked like you're ignorant or there's something wrong with you. In the reverse, if you attacked someone's desire to have children, explaining what they'd be missing out on and putting themselves through, they'd probably get narky too at their desires coming into question.
Granted, your desire to not have and raise children COULD be a phase. But just as someone who plays football for a good many years, might go off the sport, there are others who will play, coach and watch it all their lives.
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All right then, but it's still not like smoking.
I believe Maytag to be a nymphomaniac. Nymphomania is a sexual addiction. So yes, it is like smoking in the sense that she started of her own free will, she doesn't know if she can stop, and she fears she will become bitter without the release it provides.
But why the heck would you want me to want the things you want? Does it make your life richer if I have children?
It's not about what you having children means to me, it's about what your lack of desire for children means to me. If you don't want the things I want, it makes me question why you don't want those things, which makes me question why I do want them, which I don't like doing. There's more than one reason people fear the unknown. Of course, I fully respect your decision not to have children, I'm just telling you why people react the way they do toward it.
This "biological clock" everyone frets about is in conflict with my utter disgust for pregnancy, and dislike for children, as well as the fact that I have so many siblings and relatives that my genes -will- continue, whether or not I want them to.
I think we're using different definitions of the term "biological clock". As I understand it, it's a metaphor for how long you have until you cannot get pregnant anymore. When it runs out (menopause), you're barren. It has nothing to do with an actual desire to have children, it's just about the option of whether or not you could have them. Most women have the metaphorical biological clock, regardless of whether they want children or not. Many of them, such as yourself, would be happy to have it run out ASAP just so they'll stop menstruating. Some undergo surgery for just that reason.
Also, this pregnancy-talk is very offtopic, so perhaps we should make a thread in the debate room to continue this...
Uhh...yeah, maybe. I don't know, though, I'm pretty sure I've explained my point of view pretty clearly. I'm not telling you that you should have kids, I'm just explaining why people who want kids feel vaguely threatened by the reality that not everyone else does.
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It's not about what you having children means to me, it's about what your lack of desire for children means to me. If you don't want the things I want, it makes me question why you don't want those things, which makes me question why I do want them, which I don't like doing. There's more than one reason people fear the unknown.
But then that's because of your insecurity, not because of my different views.
I think we're using different definitions of the term "biological clock".
Oh. I thought you meant this natural urge to breed that everyone's supposed to have.
Uhh...yeah, maybe. I don't know, though, I'm pretty sure I've explained my point of view pretty clearly.
I'd have tons more to argue about, but sure, we'll end it here. Just don't tell me anything about phases or I will be angry panda.
Charles: Yes, I get that. I just don't understand why people constantly feel the need to 'convert' eachother, especially when it's about a harmless thing such as this. It's not like I'm a nazi or anything. And if they do think I'm so weird and feel threatened, isn't it just good that I don't breed? They'd have my genes and my upbringing, after all. I'd teach them all of my weirdness.
(Besides, I don't go around telling people what they're missing by having kids. I would have a lot to say, but I let them keep their baby-dreams. So why can't they let me have mine?)
EDIT: Edited out freudian slip.
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All right then, but it's still not like smoking.
I believe Maytag to be a nymphomaniac. Nymphomania is a sexual addiction. So yes, it is like smoking in the sense that she started of her own free will, she doesn't know if she can stop, and she fears she will become bitter without the release it provides.
The word "nymphomania" origianlly ment "a female disease characterized by morbid and uncontrollable sexual desire."
Notice how the opritive terms here are female. and disease. Nowadays it just means excessive sexual desire on the part of a female, problably beucase the supposeded "phychological" term is now defunct. The point I am trying to make here is that the term is a relic of a more twisted time (the Victorian era 1775) when any female sexual desire was thought to be pathological, and a woman nearing the sex drive of a man was thought to have a desease.
I don't like the term becuase it's sexist and outmoded.
(Except perhaps cheeky way it is sometimes used by this comic. Maytag, it seems, uses the term as an affermation of her own sexual freedom.)
I don't think Maytag has any desease becuase of her hightened sexual nature and I resent the implication that a female with a high sex drive is somehow sick. She doesn't run around sleeping with anyone becuase she needs a "sex fix" dangerously spiralling out of control as she flops from partner to partner ignoring health and safety concerns; she has sex with people becuase she is attracted to them and believes the act of sex is a positive and life afferming act. Also the idea that "she couldn't stop if she wanted to." is from you, not the comic. Maytag belives sexual exploration is part of her nature and seeks to cultivate her sexaulity becuase she believes that sex is good for it's own sake and being a sexaul person is part of being a good person. She doesn't want to stop becuase she likes the person she has become while sexually exploring and is afraid that if she stops exploring she'll change back. Not beucase she's an addict and can't help herself. She likes pleasure and likes to give others pleasure becuase she believes it is a good thing to do. I see nothing pathological about that.
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But then that's because of your insecurity, not because of my different views.
Yup. That's pretty much what I've been saying. People are bothered by your choice of lifestyle because it makes them insecure. At least that's my guess.
Nowadays it just means excessive sexual desire on the part of a female, problably beucase the supposeded "phychological" term is now defunct.
Not according to the mental health section of the ICD-10. The word for sexual addiction is still nymphomania. I prefer the ICD-10 to the DSM-IV, so that's the word I'm going to use. Sorry if it makes you uncomfortable.
I don't think Maytag has any desease becuase of her hightened sexual nature and I resent the implication that a female with a high sex drive is somehow sick.
I didn't say being a slut was a sickness, I said I believed Maytag to be a nymphomaniac.
Also: you "resent"? Do you remember what happened last time you got emotional? Brion had to come tell us to shut up. I'm sure you're passionate about this, but really, try to keep it cool.
Also the idea that "she couldn't stop if she wanted to." is from you, not the comic.
I never said she couldn't stop if she wanted to. I specifically said on the last page that "even May says she could change when she's talking to Crest". But the fact remains that she's also trying to stop having sex, and if she has to try then that means she has trouble letting go, which means it's an addiction. The facts:
1. She's so stuck on promiscuous sex that she describes the act of being monogamous as "cutting off a piece of herself".
2. She's so addicted to sex that she went behind Bern's back for years to cheat on her, even though it made her feel guilty to do so.
3. Moss is able to pick out people's weaknesses by looking at them, and for Maytag he sees the fact that she's promiscuous. She might be comfortable hearing it, but the fact remains that Moss' curse showed it to him, which means it is a weakness. A heightened sexual drive is not a weakness, but an addiction is.
4. Brion has used the word nymphomaniac a number of times to describe Maytag. You assume it was tongue-in-cheek, but I do not.
5. As I said before, Maytag fears she will grow to resent Bern if she tries to stop. Irritability is one of the most constant signs of withdrawals.
Maytag belives
Yeah, I'm sure she does. Rarely do addicts believe they're addicts. Especially young ones. "I could quit any time I want" and all that jazz. There's a reason the first step to quitting is admitting you have a problem in the first place, after all. May can come up with all the fancy ways to describe her addiction she wants, but they all sound like excuses to me.
I see nothing pathological about that.
Well, I'm fairly certain you're wrong, but feel free to believe whatever you like.
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4. Brion has used the word nymphomaniac a number of times to describe Maytag. You assume it was tongue-in-cheek, but I do not.
I just think it's a fun sounding word, so yeah it is meant to be tongue-in-cheek. I wouldn't read too much into my choice of that word.
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Fair enough. Are you confirming that Maytag does not have a sexual addiction, or just that you didn't use it for that purpose?
Edit: Just let me know if I'm talking too much.
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I shouldn't say. I'll just continue to depict her behavior according to her personality, and you be the judge.
I'm just saying, don't read too much into my use of that word. That's all.
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"As the Maytag Turns"
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Haha. It's come to the point where Crest just makes me LOL every time he opens his mouth. If I had friends or family who read this comic with me the phrase "pulled a Crest" would be getting thrown around quite a bit now :)
1. She's so stuck on promiscuous sex that she describes the act of being monogamous as "cutting off a piece of herself".
Whoa. Are we overlooking the fact that right now she literally is in the position of having had a piece of herself cut off (yeah bitten off, w/e)? Could this be some kind of metaphorical thing Brion's got going on here? Deep, man...! :o
OR, could it be that the arm Mary bit off was actually the arm that held all her Nympho powers?? In that case it's to Bern's interest to not get it re-grown, even if she hates it being missing. Deep.
OOT > For what it's worth, I'm now coming up on 32, have an active social life and have had several live-in gfs, and have never once in my life for a second thought about wanting to have children OR get married. And I don't think I ever will... I'm very happy as I am. Go figure ??? The only downside to it is that I can see my mother really wants grandchildren... but that's what my little sister's for :D
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I reckon the arm will not grow back and a chain saw is going to be stuck on it ;D
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I reckon the arm will not grow back and a chain saw is going to be stuck on it ;D
Oh my god.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1050160/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1050160/)
Best. Movie. EVAR.
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I don't know why but Crest looks very sexy on the new page. Maybe it's his cute facial expression. :-[
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I reckon the arm will not grow back and a chain saw is going to be stuck on it ;D
You guys should've been on the old forums.
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Crest just wants to see May naked while she is putting on her jester suit.
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I reckon the arm will not grow back and a chain saw is going to be stuck on it ;D
You guys should've been on the old forums.
I was
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What's with that look May is giving Crest in the last panel?
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May doesn't look right. She looks more upset than Bern. Weird.
Also, Bern looks like she's wearing a lot of eyeliner and mascara in panels one and four. Not that it looks bad.
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Maytag looks so sad. :(
Hang in there Maytag!
http://ammaryasir.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/14639.jpg
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May doesn't look right. She looks more upset than Bern. Weird.
Well yeah... How would you feel if you had just tearfully confessed to cheating, and you Significant Other came back with "Well, duh! I knew you were a whore from the moment I set eyes on you, what did you think? I expected you to cheat! You being faithful, now -that- would have been shocking ya little slut!" or something.
That's what I've been thinking during this whole sequence actually; that if this were happening in real life the girl would very quickly take the position of "Oh so you're saying you expected me to cheat all along?? Really, nice, so you've always seen me as a whore then?? Oh really!" etc etc etc and you'd be like "I can't believe you're getting angry YOU cheated on ME" and she'd be like "Oh yeah ok whatever you say Mr. My Girlfriend's A Whore!!" and so on and so forth. Good times.
Edit: What the hell happened to my post-count?! aaaarrrggghhhhhhh :(
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Crest just wants to see May naked while she is putting on her jester suit.
*lol* that was my first thought. Although I guess its also a reason for Brion to stop the carriage just as this chapter ends... Which means its a good opportunity for bandits or someone to attack with Suspira drained for the day and Glyph probably low on juice from powering the carriage.
But yeah, odd comment to make at a moment like this. "Hey now you've heard all the truth, how 'bout we stop the carriage, change our clothes and work this all out." :-\
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looks like Maytag's deusexmachinesque super understandability is contagious
maybe is an STD :o
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Crest just wants to see May naked while she is putting on her jester suit.
It looks like an attempt to change the route of the conversation, but that added benefice crossing Crest's mind certainly can't be ruled out... ;)
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That's why I dont post in here that often. I save up little pearls of wisdom just for this sort of occasoin.
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So if May would want to cheat now,she would have to ask Bern every time?
May: -Hey Bern I'm horny,can I mess around with someone?
Bern: -Yeah,dear,you may go,but remember to come back before 10.
May: - Ok,I'm going!
I wonder what May thinks now,well she tried so hard to not be found on her cheating,for sure she lied many times to Bern,and now just like that she learns Bern knew all along from begining,indeed that must be a big shock for her.For me what Crest is saying sounds like an insult,which rather wasn't intentional,look May now even if you wore your jester suit you can't hide the truth or talk out of this thing now.
As for Crest look,well if I would not know he is a man,he really looks sexy in this page.
He would be a good candidate for a reverse trap.
Edit:
As for new page,hah didn't expect that,so we can assume she wants now tell Bern whole truth about herself and her nature...
She will tell her she loves her and only her,but she won'y change in future,she won't become like Bern would want,and saying that under "truth" spell,well for sure Bern will have tough choice here with answer,I suppose we will have to wait till new chapter how this will play out.
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I guess Suspira doesn't like getting bitchslapped.
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Eh, I'm not sure she's going to just give away all her secrets. I think the most likely outcome would be her telling Bern she loved her, so Bernadette would know for certain that it was the truth.
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There are alarms going off in my head about this page. Maytag is going to do something dramatic. I think she might break up with Bernadette. Just intuition talking.
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Page 29, I guess what May is about to do now is what I thought was gonna be Suspiria's big shock before Bern gave her a bigger shock. I thought back then that Suspiria was gonna ask Maytag if she planned to keep cheating on Bern. Armed with our reader's knowdledge of what May's answer would have been, I was bracing myself for Bern's surprised look. We found instead EVERYONE ELSE'S surprised look ;)
But certainly, having the "If I was already thinking that, now that I know all this I'm even MORE decided not to do it again" scene I guess we're about to get will be a very "aaaawwwwwww"-nish moment. Yep, I'm a romantic at heart. So sue me.
@Xshu, I don't think so: even if May wished to break up with Bern, she knows that doing so in such a melodramatic way would hurt her a lot, and we DO know that she'd rather maim herself that allow such harm to happen to Bern. If May wanted to break up with Bern, she would do so in a less emotionally hurting way. So unless Brion is pulling a VERY fast one on us, I guess the dramatic scene May is gonna perform is simply make "character knowdledge" what until now was only "reader's knowdledge". Oh, yes, and Crest's. We always forget him...
@Kiran: LOL :D I'd rather think that, now that she knows that Bern knows, May *could* try to involve Bern in her flirting antics, (as in, it's not impossible that May would try to get Bern into a good threesome or two) ;) but would refrain from having fun on her own from now on.
May: "Bern, look at that cutie! Wouldn't you...?"
Bern: "Thanks but no, thanks, dear."
May: "Spoilsports. Well, you better compensate me for the loss tonight..."
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So if May would want to cheat now,she would have to ask Bern every time?
May: -Hey Bern I'm horny,can I mess around with someone?
Bern: -Yeah,dear,you may go,but remember to come back before 10.
May: - Ok,I'm going!
What's so wierd about that. I'll have you know that some people live like that and are perfectly happy. :-\
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Damn! I can't tell where Maytag is going to take this. I guess she almost doesn't trust herself. I do understand the thought that she might break up and see that as something thats best for Bern and not hurting her in the long run. I wonder if she will still wear the jester suit.
...And hey! I didn't know Suspira would be able to put out another Nagelring so soon. I guess the truth part isn't very draining. Maybe there's a little in the tank she couldn't reach while running two and forcing answers.
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What's so wierd about that. I'll have you know that some people live like that and are perfectly happy.
What is up with you? You're so touchy lately.
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Stop telling me to relax. I... am... perfectly... RELAXED! >:(
I can't wait to see what's in the next comic. I bet Maytag has some juicy gossip for us! :D
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Woah. Maytag has a pretty serious look on her face in that last panel. Angry? Determined? About to pull a weasel out of her pants in conversation?
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You're funny Akashayi! :D
ACK! MORE STORY BLUE BALLS! >:(
SPIT IT OUT ALREADY! >:(
Great Job about maintianing the tention though, Brion! :D
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And here comes the prerequisite weekend cliffhanger.
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Sorry, gotta have a cliffhanger in between the books. Besides, there's not enough page room left for her answer anyway!
Time for a short 4 page intermission, and then the story will continue next chapter!
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You son of a bitch.
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Sadist. ;P
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*LOL* Cruelty incarnate. ::)
But I guess it is the Easter break.
Yeah, very serious look in that last panel. Not sure what to expect from Maytag but I'm not sure she took that "silly girl" statement too well. Still... I can't tell if it's a look of determination or anger.
Whatever it is, she really wants it to be the truth, as much for herself I think. They still have a couple of days travel to Eschelon, even if she does break it off. One thing we know about Maytag is that she appears to be very sure of who she is, so if she thinks her "experimental" side is more than a phase, I guess she'll let her know.
Of course, it could just turn around that she'll promise to never cheat on her again. Or she may believe that to not hurt Bern anymore she thinks she needs to leave her 'cos she can never be what Bern needs/wants her to be. So many possibilities but whatever the case we know its not going to be a lie coming out of her mouth... Unless Suspira's really out of juice and she's just putting on a light show.
@Brion: Will this intermission be part of this book 4 or the next book?
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You son of a bitch.
It's what we were all thinking but wouldn't say. XD
Really though, it's a good cliffhanger.
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Hm. I think that you've got the right idea, Charles. I'm not sure she'll directly just break it off, but this is her chance to tell Bernadette that this is deeply part of who she is and not just a phase. No need to live a lie. That of course could lead to them breaking up, as Bernadette might reconsider her situation with that certainty.
But who knows. I guess we'll find out, once Brion's done tormenting us.
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@Brion: Will this intermission be part of this book 4 or the next book?
Most likely part of Book 4. I'll probably need it to fill up some pages.
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I can write a short story so you can fill up a couple of extra pages.
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Nah,no fun...
I rather expected that May would give us and Bern a shocker now,and then we would got a brake...
But's still angry/determined May is the best ;)
Bern,I love you,and only you but I know myself best and such behaviour for me is not a phase,I won't be able to change to meet yours expactations,so it's better to break it up now so I wouldn't hurt you again in future.
or
Bern,I love you,and only you,and I promise I will try to change myself,I won't cheat on you anymore,and I will try to become a partner like you want me to in time,cause I don't want you to suffer from my cheating habits anymore,like you did for these past years.
Seeing it like this I suppose May can go only in one of these directions,will she be able to change for Bern or not,heh now we just have to wait what Brion though off for real to see.
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Bern with "mascara" really looks better than without it. I guess the thick lashes really do add wonders to people.
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I can write a short story so you can fill up a couple of extra pages.
I once suggested that Brion could have a competition for someone to write a 4-8 page script for an intermission. Shadowgirls had the same thing for a short story (I got second place but the story for first deserved it).
Heck, I wouldn't mind seeing some of the better artists amongst us submit their own short stories in the art section... Actually I'm sure we had someone submit a flipside shortstory in the old forums somewhere... Has that been posted in the gallery?
EDIT: FOUND IT: http://forum.failureverification.net/showthread.php?t=410
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Oh wow. How did I totally miss that before, Charles? (Or am I just forgetting. silly brain)
It'd be fun to have some guest intermissions sometimes, though :D